@faeryquene I did some playing around with placements and marks for the SP working on where I thought she should have been placed which was at least 6th but probably 7th or even 8th. Factoring in those different placements, and the marks which contributed to the total points system, Poetszch would still have won but it would have ended up as a 5-4 split with Fratianne. It is the figures marking that pretty much determined the final placements, not necessarily the SP which everyone thinks.
I believe the problem here was not the FS - it was the SP - she was marked FAR too high technically and for that reason she was able to remain in contention going into the free-skate. I like the FS though.
Absolutely horrid skate ! She should have been 8th not 4th, disgraceful that the judging held her up in this portion of the competition, she was gifted the Gold Medal her, she didn't deserve it, this should have effectively taken her out of the running !
I think the controversy here is that she did the 2/2 combo and for that reason her scores were WAY to high for technical merit compared to what other skater were awarded. I like her style and agree her LP was wonderful.
If she only did ONE MORE rotation, then this wouldn't really be disputed...I actually think her LP was better than Fratianne's due to the safe and protected landings Linda did on her triple jumps.
Frau Muller had her hands full with Anett and Jan Hoffmann at these Olympics!!!!!!
This was very unfair, considering the judges killed Emi for not completing her combination...and the rest of her skating was far superior to this !!!And her artistic impression marks are a joke as well... too high. This was really uninspired skating.
Thanks to posting on ytube we can see the short program performances, and whether she was over marked or not she was too high in this portion of the program. She should have been 3 places lower at least. Her combination was nice but didn't fill the required elements. Her double axel was bad and her spins not very good either. I also feel Denise should have won the short program here.
This was just the first head-to-head matchup that the U.S. lost in controversial fashion to a skater from an Eastern bloc country in the Olympics. In '84 Roslyn Sumners fell to Katarina Witt as did Nancy Kerrigan to Oksana Baiul in '94. In each instance the Eastern bloc judges were able to form an alliance and insure they would outnumber the Western judges that were present on the panel in selecting the gold medalist.
That wasnt the case actually. There were more Western Judges on both panels during those Olympics. The politics came because judges from Italiy and Yugoslavia were often paid by USSR and East German federations to give higher marks. Anett was a former world champion which is why she got high marks
@metsdudenj yes look at Emi Watanabe who also made a big mistake but whose overall performance was way better than this but got way lower marks. You can tell the value of having a bigger name in the sport.
@aelred123 Actually she was planning a double loop -triple toe combo which she pretty much bombed on all season. She would have been much more successful going for double axel-double loop. Not that she wasn't 'successful', she won every comp that year but this combo made things a lot harder for her than it needed to be. Iif she had pulled it off she would have had more cred and props for her Olys and Worlds victories. I guess Frau Muller knew what she was doing but it was one helluva risk!!
I have trouble distinguishing a tight fast double and a slow triple - was her combo a double loop double toe or a triple loop double toe - I think its a double loop in which case the marks are WAY too high compared to Fratianne.
Well her marks are much lower than Fratianne. They still are probably too high though as she should be below even Lenz and Lurz who did much harder double axel combinations.
I've never seen such a stiff,robotic performance from a world class skater in my entire life. The judging at this competition was worse than the 1994 Baiul-Kerrigan controversy and the 2002 Sallier and Pelletier debacle.
You can see by her expression even she is disgusted with her skate here. She starts smiling all of a sudden though when she sees the marks, so I think she knows she was held up for this skate.
She was practicing a 3 toe-2 loop combo all season (which she missed at the Nationals and Euros), and that was what the "element sheet" would have said--and someone told her to change. Her 3 sal was much more consistent, so I am not sure why they went for the toe...
Dick got confused probably because there was NO WAY even back then for a medal contender to perform such an easy combination. Had someone else done it, the required elements marks could have been in the 4's.
I never have understood why people give her such a hard time - I like her style and find her to be a very fine free skater. I think she deserved her gold medal wins.
I love her skating, and she definitely was a great skater. However, I must say, the marks she got for this particular SP were a gift from God.
You need to realize that her combo was among the easiest one performed in the entire competition--compared to several others who did triple combos, and the double axel was a miss. Had she been judged fairly on this SP, I don't know who'd have won...
What an awful SP -- no style, ugly triple loop, off-balance double axel. Not olympic quality, neither then nor now. (For comparison's sake, check out caryn kadavy's gorgeous trademark triple loops, usually out of an ina bauer -- THAT'S how it needs to be done, not like this.
I am with many others in saying that it was not so much that Poetzch beat Fratianne in the overall placement that was the problem with the Ladies competition at the 1980 Olympics, it was that she should have been behind other skaters in the short program.
Lenz was a no-name unfortunately though. She had no chance to placed ahead of a huge name like Poetzsch unless Poetzsch just sat on the ice for half the program. That is how figure skating works.
I agree with skatesindreams. I was never much of a Fratianne fan, so it wasn't so much the wuzrobbed factor that made me ??? Anett's placement in the SP especially after missing the planned combo and the wonky 2axel. I was more upset for other skaters who performed better in the SP than Anett but placed lower.
I hadn't seen this since the night it was performed, She did only the minimum required - and that not very well. IMO, she was very fortunate to do as well as she did.
Fratiianne should have been ahead by a mile, after the SP.
Fratianne did beat Poetzsch by a mile in the SP scores. Dick Button is wrong in saying their scores were close, they were about .4 total apart per judge on average. However Poetzsch was apparently that far ahead after figures. Poetzsch's short program scores should have been even lower too though of course since this wasnt even the 4th best short program, but she was held up on her name.
Lol. There was no way Fratianne could have been ahead by a mile after the SP, cause Anett was ahead by 5 miles after figures. The European skaters (mainly the Soviets, Austrians, and Anett) were masters at figures. You had to have Peggy Flemming Figures prowess to challenge them. How do you think she was able to win by just winning Figures. Schuba did the same, and easily.
Disgusting performance and judging !!
karrtt1234 1 week ago
She must have slept with the judges???
pelicanus11 2 months ago
That was pathetic!
pelicanus11 2 months ago
She had bloc judging on her side for sure. She wouldn't have finished anywhere near the podium if the judging had been fair.
faeryquene 7 months ago
@faeryquene I did some playing around with placements and marks for the SP working on where I thought she should have been placed which was at least 6th but probably 7th or even 8th. Factoring in those different placements, and the marks which contributed to the total points system, Poetszch would still have won but it would have ended up as a 5-4 split with Fratianne. It is the figures marking that pretty much determined the final placements, not necessarily the SP which everyone thinks.
floskate 7 months ago
Terrible skate... completely criminal judging !
Marchjoy1963 10 months ago 4
I believe the problem here was not the FS - it was the SP - she was marked FAR too high technically and for that reason she was able to remain in contention going into the free-skate. I like the FS though.
Chutson353 11 months ago
Absolutely horrid skate ! She should have been 8th not 4th, disgraceful that the judging held her up in this portion of the competition, she was gifted the Gold Medal her, she didn't deserve it, this should have effectively taken her out of the running !
shottut 1 year ago 9
I think the controversy here is that she did the 2/2 combo and for that reason her scores were WAY to high for technical merit compared to what other skater were awarded. I like her style and agree her LP was wonderful.
Chutson353 1 year ago
If she only did ONE MORE rotation, then this wouldn't really be disputed...I actually think her LP was better than Fratianne's due to the safe and protected landings Linda did on her triple jumps.
Frau Muller had her hands full with Anett and Jan Hoffmann at these Olympics!!!!!!
MTVMANN 2 years ago
I liked her LP a lot, but her SP was blah...
barkingtree88 2 years ago
She was definately overmarked.
clarriona 2 years ago 3
This was very unfair, considering the judges killed Emi for not completing her combination...and the rest of her skating was far superior to this !!!And her artistic impression marks are a joke as well... too high. This was really uninspired skating.
shottut 2 years ago 5
Thanks to posting on ytube we can see the short program performances, and whether she was over marked or not she was too high in this portion of the program. She should have been 3 places lower at least. Her combination was nice but didn't fill the required elements. Her double axel was bad and her spins not very good either. I also feel Denise should have won the short program here.
jokerwildest 2 years ago
This was just the first head-to-head matchup that the U.S. lost in controversial fashion to a skater from an Eastern bloc country in the Olympics. In '84 Roslyn Sumners fell to Katarina Witt as did Nancy Kerrigan to Oksana Baiul in '94. In each instance the Eastern bloc judges were able to form an alliance and insure they would outnumber the Western judges that were present on the panel in selecting the gold medalist.
showmebear 2 years ago
That wasnt the case actually. There were more Western Judges on both panels during those Olympics. The politics came because judges from Italiy and Yugoslavia were often paid by USSR and East German federations to give higher marks. Anett was a former world champion which is why she got high marks
metsdudenj 2 years ago
@metsdudenj yes look at Emi Watanabe who also made a big mistake but whose overall performance was way better than this but got way lower marks. You can tell the value of having a bigger name in the sport.
russianskatingfan 1 year ago
@aelred123 Actually she was planning a double loop -triple toe combo which she pretty much bombed on all season. She would have been much more successful going for double axel-double loop. Not that she wasn't 'successful', she won every comp that year but this combo made things a lot harder for her than it needed to be. Iif she had pulled it off she would have had more cred and props for her Olys and Worlds victories. I guess Frau Muller knew what she was doing but it was one helluva risk!!
floskate 2 years ago
I have trouble distinguishing a tight fast double and a slow triple - was her combo a double loop double toe or a triple loop double toe - I think its a double loop in which case the marks are WAY too high compared to Fratianne.
Chutson353 2 years ago 2
Well her marks are much lower than Fratianne. They still are probably too high though as she should be below even Lenz and Lurz who did much harder double axel combinations.
muffycat26 2 years ago
I've never seen such a stiff,robotic performance from a world class skater in my entire life. The judging at this competition was worse than the 1994 Baiul-Kerrigan controversy and the 2002 Sallier and Pelletier debacle.
TheSienna29 2 years ago 3
Comment removed
nondescriptnyc 2 years ago 2
You can see by her expression even she is disgusted with her skate here. She starts smiling all of a sudden though when she sees the marks, so I think she knows she was held up for this skate.
buttleelegant 2 years ago 3
This performance was SHITT!!!
millerowns 2 years ago 3
Poor old Dick couldn't even call the combination correctly then.
Thank god commentators have the list of elements printed out for them in advance these days!
aussieskates 2 years ago 3
She was practicing a 3 toe-2 loop combo all season (which she missed at the Nationals and Euros), and that was what the "element sheet" would have said--and someone told her to change. Her 3 sal was much more consistent, so I am not sure why they went for the toe...
Dick got confused probably because there was NO WAY even back then for a medal contender to perform such an easy combination. Had someone else done it, the required elements marks could have been in the 4's.
nondescriptnyc 2 years ago
Comment removed
TheSienna29 2 years ago 4
I never have understood why people give her such a hard time - I like her style and find her to be a very fine free skater. I think she deserved her gold medal wins.
Chutson353 2 years ago 3
I love her skating, and she definitely was a great skater. However, I must say, the marks she got for this particular SP were a gift from God.
You need to realize that her combo was among the easiest one performed in the entire competition--compared to several others who did triple combos, and the double axel was a miss. Had she been judged fairly on this SP, I don't know who'd have won...
nondescriptnyc 2 years ago 2
you're right - it looked like a triple loop-double loop combo to me but I guess its a double-double. So, yeah her marks were too high.
Chutson353 2 years ago 3
What an awful SP -- no style, ugly triple loop, off-balance double axel. Not olympic quality, neither then nor now. (For comparison's sake, check out caryn kadavy's gorgeous trademark triple loops, usually out of an ina bauer -- THAT'S how it needs to be done, not like this.
Aldobrandini 2 years ago 3
The most awkward ending position I have ever seen.
Scott89119 2 years ago 3
I am with many others in saying that it was not so much that Poetzch beat Fratianne in the overall placement that was the problem with the Ladies competition at the 1980 Olympics, it was that she should have been behind other skaters in the short program.
bardtoob 2 years ago 2
Way over-marked. Doube=Double Combo and axel on an angle.
premierrules 2 years ago 9
Compare this program to Sandy Lenz' short program at the same event. Lenz did every element better.
3370433704 2 years ago 5
Lenz was a no-name unfortunately though. She had no chance to placed ahead of a huge name like Poetzsch unless Poetzsch just sat on the ice for half the program. That is how figure skating works.
russianskatingfan 2 years ago 4
It was a 2 toe.
russianskatingfan 2 years ago 3
At the 1980 Europeans , she attempted a 2 loop/ 3 toe loop but missed the second part of the jump combination.
peppe201 3 years ago
I agree with skatesindreams. I was never much of a Fratianne fan, so it wasn't so much the wuzrobbed factor that made me ??? Anett's placement in the SP especially after missing the planned combo and the wonky 2axel. I was more upset for other skaters who performed better in the SP than Anett but placed lower.
ballinagra13 3 years ago 2
I hadn't seen this since the night it was performed, She did only the minimum required - and that not very well. IMO, she was very fortunate to do as well as she did.
Fratiianne should have been ahead by a mile, after the SP.
skatesindreams 3 years ago 3
Fratianne did beat Poetzsch by a mile in the SP scores. Dick Button is wrong in saying their scores were close, they were about .4 total apart per judge on average. However Poetzsch was apparently that far ahead after figures. Poetzsch's short program scores should have been even lower too though of course since this wasnt even the 4th best short program, but she was held up on her name.
russianskatingfan 2 years ago 3
Lol. There was no way Fratianne could have been ahead by a mile after the SP, cause Anett was ahead by 5 miles after figures. The European skaters (mainly the Soviets, Austrians, and Anett) were masters at figures. You had to have Peggy Flemming Figures prowess to challenge them. How do you think she was able to win by just winning Figures. Schuba did the same, and easily.
GoBogi 2 years ago 3