Steven Jones analyzes WTC dust samples

[zakquack]

There're two types of people involved in debates of this ilk.. People with a strong understanding of science and her laws and people who know just enough to pick a side. Of these two types, there's obviously, two major sides or factions... Those who understand are hard at work creating new arguments for their side.. Whichever argument convinces more of those who do not understand, wins. So you see, this debate has nothing to do with the truth, and those concerned with the truth aren't here.

[whoopwhoopwhoops]

Looks like 'red oxide' to me, which sure, will produce a similar EDX spectrum to thermite. His results, in terms of micrograph presentation really should make one question the credibility of his conclusions.

[lookbetween]

@whoopwhoopwhoops show me the data, do some further work.

[whoopwhoopwhoops]

@lookbetween send me some WTC dust and I will quite happily generate my own data. I invite you to even come and sit next to me while recreating his methods - there really is nothing to hide.

[jborean]

I looked up crackpots and this video popped up

[thermate911]

excellent video, thanks

[biggbrattz]

You are quite right. The 1st vids that I saw of "Dr" Jones seemed to have some credibility. I have long since learned that his analyses were at best incomplete, at worst incompetant. Just another clown trying to use half truths to prove something that didn't happen. The classic "truther" tactic. I never really suspected thermite had been used, and with a little bit of persistance, I learned alot about WTC, various explosives, and human nature.

Odd that "truthers" don't find the truth.

[theBartone9119]

@biggbrattz "Particles with the 'chemical composition of thermite'. I accept his analysis."

"Thermite isn't some high tech charge, it's rust, aluminum and an oxidizer.....In fact, in all of the improvised explsoive manuals, it's clearly explained how to make it" - Ron Craig (International Society of Explosives Engineers).

An aluminum wheel on a rusty hub has the same chemical signature of nanothermite lol Jones could have found anything dude, most think it was primer paint.

[biggbrattz]

Don't put words in Dr. Jones' mouth. He has shown that the dust contains

particles with the "chemical composition of thermite". I accept his analysis.

He does not conclude that this is proof that thermite was used.

How could he? The thermite reaction is normal when steel and aluminum burn together at high temps. If you seek truth, don't misquote people, and don't draw conclusions that you are not qualified to make. Big allegations...no substance. Do your homework before you accuse.

[theBartone9119]

@biggbrattz In some of the tests I've seen, there is no "explosion" the "therm*te" just vigorously burns. What type of paint you say could do this? Most kinds you put a propane torch flame to. You can get the same effect by sprinkling coarse black pepper onto the burner elements of an electric stove. If there is anything making it burn better is most likely some form of binder, the contaminates are the dominant species in the samples from Jones.

[theBartone9119]

@biggbrattz So,Jones found nano-thermite based on that chemical signature? No.

"The 'nanothermite' samples vary by about a factor of 10 in energy content. This nonuniformity proves it is not a "precision engineered" substance of any kind.

The top end of energy content exceeds the theoretical maximum for thermite by a factor of two, and the observed content of nanothermite by a factor of five. The substance cannot be thermite of any type. Its 'contaminants' are, in fact, the dominant species."

[Flayprime]

I sure am glad it said "more coming soon." What this guy said is not substantiated by anything in this video! 

[edicccc]

keep up the good work folks. Scholars, people of science, architects will get to the bottom of this. We need some people who know how to push for a new investigation because it is taking very long.

[megagagnon1]

prove that any dust samples with thermite were collected at the wtc - chain of evidence, who collected the dust, when, who transported it and where did it end up? without all of this a dust sample is inadmissible in court, so it's not proof of anything.

[valeo626]

President is a globalist puppet, sold to us by the media and mostly oprah

[stratocaster539]

If Obama is the man he likes us to believe he is then he should be looking at this.

[newexperiment]

Too baad Mr. jones Is a nut case.

watch?v=bYzIbOYaSy8

[lookbetween]

What a perfectly viable, scientific argument you've just presented.

[newexperiment]

Oh man, U so funny!!!1! I don't need science and deductive logic to show that square circles don't exist.

Watch the video. There are 1 or 2 straw mans In it, but there's a ton of pointing out your actual square circles.

[BrettFromKolob]

If you're talking about the thermite reaction, yes, those are indeed spheres. They form into a sphere because of surface tension. I'm sorry you think that pixelation from the camera makes it a square. If you want to get any headway, you should obtain a dust sample independent of any that Dr Jones has collected and have a lab look at it. Until you can demonstrate that he's wrong in a scientific manner, then whatever you say is meaningless babble.

[newexperiment]

I wasn't being literal with my square circles. I was simply making an analogy with "inside job" and "square circles". Square circles are a contradiction, they can not exist.

It doesn't matter if he's right or wrong about this one point of 'evidence' (for what?). It's the conclusions that you draw from this that I'm attacking.

[stratocaster539]

Oh grow up you silly person Science gives us the truth, the sooner you accept that fact the sooner you will stop feeling the need to make inane comments on what is a very serious matter - grow up nerd!

[newexperiment]

Your assertions.

I don't accept science.

No one that accepts science makes inane comments on very serious matters.

I'm a nerd.

I need to grow up.

Either show where you got ALL of this information or be exposed as resorting to ad hominum attacks because you are either too dumb to discuss points, or too scared of the truth you might find if you did discuss opposing points.

[stratocaster539]

Your inane comments:

"Too baad Mr. jones Is? a nut case."

Oh' I'm dreadfully sorry - did you mean some other Mr. Jones?

It's Professor Jones actually.Give the man the respect he has EARNED.

Likewise you have earned the title NERD.

As for what you think of me? - It would matter if I cared.

[newexperiment]

No evidence exists for:

1. I don't accept science.

2. No one that accepts science makes inane comments on very serious matters.

3. I'm a nerd.

4. I need to grow up.

Either you don't know what counts as evidence for something, or you think evidence isn't needed in order to make claims. In either case the only logical conclusion (read as 'fact') is: You are not someone who's claims have any merit and no one should listen to your claims about reality.

[stratocaster539]

Ok Einstein, If you challenge real scientific research using the 'scientific method' then, I'm afraid, by default you do not accept science -savvy? and, oh yes - if I require serious psychoanalysis - I will pay for it from a qualified professional, not an infantile little nerd like you.

Get yourself a girlfriend or a hobby that doesnt involve bothering other people.

Nothing personal.

[newexperiment]

So you Neither care what I think of you, nor can you help yourself from responding. Contradictions aren't allowed in science. But that's something you seem unable to grasp.  There are 5'000 philospher/psichologist/econon­omist scholars for truth. And 500 000 scholars who say that truthers are a load of crap. Why should we trust your 1% instead of the other 99%? Exactly.

[stratocaster539]

"500 000 scholars who say that? truthers are a load of crap"

You're really,really reaching now,give it up now there's a good chap.

Whatever you think about me-that's yours -you own it,deal with it.

[newexperiment]

I didn't say anything about you, I was talking about your conclusions. This is the kind of thing I'd expect only from someone without the capability to differentiate information properly.

[dbootsthediva]

Interesting data The dust itself, when you watch it expand, it expands in specific design formation patterns of a synthetic chemical is my belief. It is way too similiar to the way the conning chemtrails of cloud formations cataylsts form When it comes to nanotechnology, they all use the same fusion method so the chemical mixtures expand in the same way of powder it seem. Same similiar separation patterns happened in this explosion of an experiment in this video.

Peace

[hootinouts]

Yeah, somebody packed tons of Thermite around the WCT structural steel. What are you smoking in your pipe?

[rabimmel]

today i had a little nanothermite in my pipe, it kicks the hell out of your head aswell as on these three buildings.

[brodudesnsupras]

Ah nothin like some nanothermite and keefe on top, eh? hehe

[Jjinn1]

Apparently someone did... News to you? It would most certainly account for the unrealistic collapse due to fire. Oh wait "Global collapse"...

[HayteStreet]

evidence?

[unimoggie]

Soooooooooooo is this video EVER gonna come out??

[PhuqueU]

Inside job. Hang them with their own creepy laws.

"He who digs a pit will fall into it" - Solomon

[bananian]

Jones is a hack.

[loccysmif]

"and again why a XEDS with bse, BSE doesn't tell us the individual distribution of elements, but an EMP would have."

I think you got it a little mixed up here. XEDS is a form of EMP, which measures X-rays. BSE measures reflected electrons.

This is a good question, I think you mean techniques such as TEM instead. However, the paper does provide information about the inter-elemental relations, such as the discovery of elemental aluminium. Find Al and Fe2O3, if it ignites, it is thermite.

[heafers84]

but they specify in their report that they used BSE, which is a shorter technique, but they could have done an electron microprobe and found where each individual element goes and how it is attached. They know if they hand these samples over to anyone this is what they'll do.

So either they're scared to run the test or they already have and don't want to tell anyone

I'm done with this conversation though, we can go in circles all day. I wish you luck and hope you find peace on this matter

[loccysmif]

They used both BSE and XEDS/EDX. BSE is provides a 'map', XEDS/EDX a graph. BSE involves measuring reflecting electrons, XEDS involves measuring reflecting X-rays. So no, they didn't "run scared". Your question earlier was a good one. It would be very useful to do additional, even more advanced scanning, in order to determine molecular bonding.

What I wish, is freedom, truth and justice. That means combatting both foreign and domestic enemies of freedom, which, eventually, leads to peace. Cya.

[brodudesnsupras]

Good answer buddy :)

[loccysmif]

If it's the last thing I'll say to you, please watch this. It's the closest thing to somebody on the inside confessing.

watch?v=3GHM5f9lVho

Peace.

[loccysmif]

What you should know about peer review:

911blogger. com /node/19780

[loccysmif]

"no the graphs do not match thermite"

Sure they do, have a look at figure 6 and 7.

"why did Jones pick such a crap journal"

Because this journal allows everybody to read the paper if the author pays a fee for that. That's why Jones shelled out the cash. So that you and I can read it without paying for it. Furthemore, evidently science is political, we can see that from Marie Paule Pileni where she..well...basically..did not tell the truth about her resume. Even Greening agrees:

xrl. us/bersbb

[heafers84]

well, there are way better open journals that he could have picked from, Bentham has been getting scrutiny way before this paper.

So why Bentham?

Plus even without publishing in an open journal he still could have put together a PPT or something that would have shown their results and findings, and the ones who wanted to buy could have

and again why a XEDS with bse, BSE doesn't tell us the individual distribution of elements, but an EMP would have.

Plus the newer technologies such as SDD

[loccysmif]

"So why Bentham?"

Why the continuous argumentum ad verecundiam? Ask the other scientists who published in it. The whole history with Bazant and Gourley in the engineering journal proves how political it all is, unfortunately.

"Plus even without publishing in an open journal he still could have put together a PPT".

I agree, but I think this approach is better.

[loccysmif]

Concerning the zinc argument (which is really a paint argument) you have a number of problems:

(1) Zinc is not found in XEDS scans after dipping in MEK solvent

(2) Elemental aluminum is found.

(3) Paint is neither exothermic nor explosive

(4) You must show a matching XEDS plot for "Tnemec's Series 010 Red Primer" to support your claim

(5) There is no zinc in the resulting iron-rich microspheres

Just to sum them up for you.

[heafers84]

the zinc was not looked for after dipping in MEK solvent, the graphs you pointed out were directly looking for something. he states only once sample ignited, but hasn't proved it with video or letting one test a sample.

as for Bentham's reputation this website is just one of many reviews that i've been reading for the past hour

library . yale . edu /~ llicense /ListArchives / 0804/ msg00027 . html

and your proof that she lied about her credentials

no the graphs do not match thermite

[heafers84]

so the question would be, why did Jones pick such a crap journal. Why not publish in a respected journal, i know why but do you.

Why on earth would be publish in a journal that's not respected, AND he payed to publish it, why the hell would he do this, there has to be an answer.

Probably b/c he knew it wouldn't pass a real peer review.

[loccysmif]

And again, suppose it was paint (it isn't). You'd still have a major problem. You know why, right? :-)

[loccysmif]

>"Sorry, don't getcha. Commercial thermite matched"

>nope!

Yes it does. What do you mean, "nope"? Can you interpret XEDS plots or not? Come' on, there's no reason to start lying on me.

>"all that's asked is a publication in a legitimate journal"

All that's asked is that you go out and publish a peer-reviewed rebuttal. You guys talk, but don't do.

[heafers84]

you give us the hundreds of dollars to publish and we will, also we would need a sample from Jones which him and his cronies can only touch

Vanity publications are a joke

as for the NOPE statement , NOT ONE GRAPH OF HIS CHIPS MATCHES THERMITE, not one.

and as for the fig without zn, can you read, these were focused on PARTS of the chips, one looking to see if silicon was bound with aluminum, the other looking for high concentrations of Iron

So yes there was zinc in his samples.

[heafers84]

as for the bentham head, how do you figure she's a liar just b/c she doesn't like his paper. She said she wasn't told it was being published, which means she didn't appoint the group, which is part of her job, and she can even decide to review it herself.

she's trying to distance herself like many others, but they cling to these people for credidation, her and the last two heads are still on the list of members.

[loccysmif]

You can write in capitals all you want, but the fact remains the graphs match thermite. You must need glasses, or you don't know what thermite is.

Open Chemical Physics Journal is a fine journal, which is proved by the fact that it was headed by a decorated scientist, who then quit over politics and lied about her expertise.

You'll need more than money to publish. You need peer review. You won't pass it, and your our own argument now turns against you: where is your peer reviewed rebuttal?

[loccysmif]

Thank god somebody finally reads the paper.

[loccysmif]

And remember, suppose, just suppose the debunkers are right (They're not) and the chips are paint.

.....We have a problem then don't we? Highly exothermic paint?! Hello?!

[loccysmif]

BTW, I'm well aware of all kinds of people who criticize the paper without EVEN READING IT. This includes other 9/11 researchers, so called world-renowned scientists, debunkers, and journalist hit job types. It's RIDICULOUS. First Jones needed partners, he got them, then they demanded a journal, he got it, then they demanded peer review, he got it, now they can't debunk the paper, so they attack the chain of custody. It's a CROCK. RJ Lee/USGS confirm a HUGE TEMPERATURE GAP -> exothermic reaction

[blueshadow1996]

Solidifies in the air?.where did yiu get the dust..?

[unimoggie]

Hi there lookbetween :) I see Prof Jones et al have now published, hope to see your movie up sometime soon!

[unimoggie]

Hi there! How are you getting on with the movie? Maybe see a summer release? :)

[TsunamiTruth]

they did tests on the seaweed in the indian ocean that proves that the tsunami was an inside job too

[Avatar2050]

yeah it was Haarp... katrina was one too... also japan earthquakes.

peace

truth will OUT.!

[mishabaikal]

"Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth". Google it and you will see how much is being supressed.

[smartasa911twoofer]

OK twoofers...........I read this article.

Where did they get the samples from?

Where have they samples been stored since 2001?

In ANY scientific study specimen quality control, integrity, and contamination are VITAL!

FACT: The report even admits that ONLY one sample is free from contamination.

ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS TWOOFERS?

Steven Jones DEBUNKED!

[loccysmif]

Well, smartasa911twoofer, chain of custody was taken care of by witnesses, testimony and a signed affidavit, (if you had read the paper you would know that).

Furthermore, samples have been sent to independent researchers for verification. Also, RJ Lee and USGS reports confirm the temperature gap (molten iron, molten molybdenum) and other anomalies. I guess since you can't dispute the science anymore, you are now questioning the chain of custody. (We also have visual evidence from the ST :-)

[heafers84]

if by independent research you mean other truthers then yes, and his latest paper was published in Bentham, which is a joke, he got to HAND PICK his review group. Bentham publishing is nothing more than a pay and play journal. It's where all the wonder drug weightloss/vitamin/health pill schemes go to get their research published.

The research has been disputed, more than likely it's paint, even though he does a horrible job of trying to disprove this.

He won't let anyone but him cont..

[heafers84]

and his cronies touch the stuff.

And for heaven sakes use something other than XED. With something else he could see the exact make up of all of the chemicals, exactly where the oxygen etc. He probably already has, but doesn't want the donations to stop coming in yet.

Also, thermite in paint form, it has to be powder, , he even says this in his previous paper, he contradicts himself constantly

and the keV of the dust he shows doesn't match the keV of thermite at all.

[loccysmif]

Your comments CLEARLY reveal you have not read a SINGLE LETTER in the latest ("Active thermitic material...") paper by Niels Harrit, Steven Jones et. al.. If you had you wouldn't be coming up with questions and objections which are clearly answered in the paper. You haven't read it, you know you haven't. Come back with criticisms when you ACTUALLY have.

P.S. The "vanity publication" objection is utter nonsense. Have a debunker prove it by publishing a peer reviewed paper there. I'm waiting.

[heafers84]

Well he could use someting other than XED to find the EXACT chemical makeup

None of the keV's of the chips match any type of thermite, i would like to know why

He states that the energy content is higher than any known thermite, thus proving it's not thermite, (paper has 6x the energy content of thermite)

He doesn't state what paint he tested, primer paint handles thinners differently than regular paint.

And Bentham costs money none of us are going to waste money

[heafers84]

Vanity publicatons are crap, why would he choose Bentham to publish,

b/c he could hand pick his peer group.

So here's just a few critisisms. Why do the keVs of the chips not match that of thermite, no matter what ratio/other oxidezers the keV should match

Why is the energy content higher, even for nano-thermite, the powder is just finer, the energy content will be the same, even with different oxidizers

What paint was used

And why no "real" independent group has reviewed his work

[loccysmif]

I've read your comments, and since I also read debunker websites, I know that you are actually parroting their statements. That unfortunatey means you still haven't read the paper. This is a shame. A good example of why you are talking...well..nonsense is that you think there is a 'keV' for thermite. Furthermore, it is not XED, it is XEDS.

Look. You can't depend on debunker or truther websites to tell you who is right. Stop doing that. There was zinc in WTC paint, and not in the chips.

[heafers84]

HAVE YOU READ THE ARTICLE, i believe if you look at fig 14 you will definitely see zinc.

and yes it does matter that the keV matches, and he doesn't show us one slide that matches thermite, and yes there is no ONE keV for thermite, but certain elements will show up in the same place in the scale for all thermites.

You just keep relying on Jones to publish in pay and play publshings, and leave the real science to others.

again, "hand picked" peer review group

[loccysmif]

Ah. Thank you. You've finally read the paper. I can't thank you enough. Now we can talk. Yes. fig. 14. Now learn to interpret the paper correctly:

xrl. us/bernnh

"and yes it does matter that the keV matches, and he doesn't show us one slide that matches thermite, and yes there is no ONE keV for thermite, but certain elements will show up in the same place in the scale for all thermites."

Sorry, don't getcha. Commercial thermite matched.

hand picked peer review? show me hard proof they did.

[heafers84]

i know how to read it and yes theres zinc just b/c he tries to right it off as contamination doesn't mean it was

again, why not use something more precise than an XEDS that way we can see where the oxygen is at.

The chair at Bentham quit stating the mag was bad science, she states that the lead author knew the reviewers, supposed to be anonymous, possibly handpicked

"Sorry, don't getcha. Commercial thermite matched"

nope!

all that's asked is a publication in a legitimate journal

[loccysmif]

"i know how to read it and yes theres zinc"

No there isn't. See figure 16,17,18. Selectively quoting for spin purposes does not work with me. Even Dr. Frank Greening agrees. He has now moved on to other areas of fruitless spin.

"The chair at Bentham quit stating the mag was bad science"

She's also a proven liar, a nanotechnology expert, a consultant for the SNPE and has extensive ties to the defense industry. She hasn't made ANY scientifical point about the paper.

[unimoggie]

"Later this year" ... Hey its december 12th now ... *nudge nudge* .. :D Everything has gone very quiet in Prof Jones land .. is he gearing up for a big release? Been checking every day for months - I cant wait to hear the results!

[lookbetween]

my apologies. its a slow process and I want to make it perfect. I'm also waiting for some developments. "gearing up for a big release" is a perfect way of describing it

[unimoggie]

Hurray! **fingers crossed**

[Flayprime]

@unimoggie Slower than shat evidentally!! Maybe it's all wrong? maybe this guy wanted 15 seconds of fame...... Maybe the big release was this guy hyping everyone up so he could bust on his keyboard like some deranged sociopath? XD

[uyoudecide]

whens this coming out?

[lookbetween]

Should be finished later this year

[123dool]

I admire this man for his courage, faith and honesty!

[Jokertattooo]

If anything should happen to prof. Jones may there be massive repercussions.

They hide behind the guns of our family members.

The time has come for the fall of the parasitic ruling class, the shadow government, the freemasons and the Bilderbergs.

Let us never allow any form of oppression, enslavement, tyranny or global domination to exist or thrive so long as we live.

These people are the true scum of the Earth.

If we are to leave any human legacy here on this planet, it should NOT be them.

[gnoseologist]

Ya! Ya! Ya! Steven Jones! Alex Jones! David Griffin! Richard Gage! YOU!

[bagnon]

I knew Dr. Jones personally when I worked for the Physics Department at BYU. He is a good guy with high morals and has no agenda here other than to discover the truth, even if that means he looses his job and perhaps even life.

[WTC7WasPulled]

I can't believe this, Dr.Jones has proven that there was thermite used, and people aren't in the streets demanding justice. How could people not care that they blew up the twin towers and Building 7?

[lizardfirefighter110]

@WTC7WasPulled Hey, are you still out there? People are unable to get there head around the implications of the raw data about 9/11 because to accept such information would require them to reformulate their core values, world view, and trust in there government. They are just not up to changing who they are. It is easier to just keep believing in God and my country and that the U.S. is a righteous nation that would not allow their citizens to be murdered. They do not understand the sad truth.

[biggbrattz]

@WTC7WasPulled "chemical composition of thermite" is not proof that thermite was used.

Any fireman can tell you that when aluminum ( planes ) and steel ( buildings ) burn together you can get these types of molten thermite reactions. They also can be seen in car fires with cars that have aluminum engine blocks. This is common and certainly not evidence of anything other than high temps and metals. The thermite reaction is aluminum and iron oxide reacting to form iron and aluminum oxide.

[WTFaboutWTC7]

This man is going to be in the future history books! He deserves the nobel price for peace.

911 truth ends the 911 wars!