Hitchens may be a more interesting speaker, but he's just as much of a fanatic as someone like Bill O'Reilly. "Destroy your enemies!" And who might those be, exactly? With such a broad definition, your enemies could be anyone. What a prude
I love Hitchens and as a Christian I hope to see him in heaven , so i can have a scotch and a cigarette with him. But its plain as day he vitriol of "religion". And while he a GREAT speaker and writer and provacatuer he is no theologian nor philosopher. What truly amazes me is that many of the youtube crowd , who claim there is no God , fair enough, but then act as if Hitchens is a God lol. Especially when so may of his arguments are bombastic and non sensical
Well we arnt worshiping him, making a statue of him and making a religion out of him. He like Ghandi is a man to be respected, for his words, his actions, his intellect and his contribution to the world, if you consider that acting like he is god then you have a loose definition on what god is. How are ghosts supposed to smoke something that is well not ghostly? Your lungs wont work either.
if i were to answer your question, in a way which would answer it, i would rephrase to say that, in my following speech that my answer could be phrased as....JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION FOR FUCK SAKE
While McGrath talks, Im looking at Hitchens' body language and Im trying to figure out what is going through that brilliant mind of his. LoL I can think of so many funny things...
I'm an atheist and I have great respect for Christopher Hitchens, but he was wrong. The Christian was right in not dehumanizing the supposed "enemy" and ignore the possible motivations (political, religious whatever). Hitchens was too extreme.
can someone explain to me the difference between hitchens and a terrorist fundamentalist? they are both proponents of the us v. them mentality, and both use words such as enemy, immoral, evil, and preach the violence and destruction of anything that's disagreeable with "us." only difference is that fundamentalists hide behind religion and hitchens hides behind "logic", as he calls it. by the way, i'm not religious, i'd just like a common sense perspective on this man. thanks.
@hmsrenown you missed my point, but ok... i pointed it out that he's using words that "religious" ppl use, but he's using them under his own umbrella promoting the same message he's fighting: violence. he thinks he has a right to it under his perspective, while others don't cause they're "religious." i didn't ask for someone who doesn't know me to put a label on me, i genuinely want a common sense perspective on this man in regards to this particular segment of the video.
@izzimarczak I think you missed the point wildly. The focal point of the debate is whether violence in organized religion today is at the core or only on the fringes, and Hitchens was arguing for the former. Now he did not advocate violent eradication of religion at any point, I fail to see how you concluded what you did.
@hmsrenown I listened to the entire debate and i think i got his point, i just don't completely agree with it. i like this man, i support many of his points, but it's very hard for me to just "agree" when I hear what he says at 3:40. to me those words sound as if they were coming from a radical, except hitchens is on the opposite side of the extreme. he's become the thing he's fighting except he thinks he's right. well, so does the other side. what do we as a society do about this clash?
@izzimarczak If I understood his words correctly, he was disputing the idea of "love your enemy" as moral. His argument against that is due to the fact that the "enemy" may have committed appalling crimes, "loving your enemy" is clearly immoral. I have struggled to find a different meaning to the clip.
@hmsrenown i heard the same words, along with "educating a cold steady dislike of them and encompass their destruction"... who will define our enemies, how far do we go to destroy them? loving your enemy is not "clearly" immoral, otherwise everyone would agree on it. i think it's more moral to learn why someone does what they do and how do we influence it, politically, culturally, religiously, before we accept hitchen's proposal to just go and "destroy" them. it all seems to rest on opinion...
@hmsrenown i agree too, it is absurd...along with a whole bunch of other things that religion promotes. in no way am i supporting religious dogma, i'm not even bothering to comment on the other guy, no point. but with hitches he actually has good points but he's also extreme and i think he needs to be challenged on that. i think we need to be extra cautious with people who have a platform cause sometimes they go too far even though they mean well.
@hmsrenown If all people operated on the principles Hitchins proposes, then war would be perpetual (and it is). I think Christianity has a point here, though religion certainly isn't behind the origin of this concept. One of the parties involved must break the paranoid cycle of conflict in a strategic and innocuous way or we could very easily end in a nuclear war. We've evolved to the point where both mindlessly defending yourself and turning the other cheek are just as suicidal.
@hmsrenown And just to clarify, I don't think turning the other cheek is any more logical. A logical person wouldn't hold a "cold steady dislike of [his enemy] and encompass their destruction", or "turn the other cheek" as they get pissed on. Instead, they would first defend themselves, attempt to understand their enemy, and finally, attempt a diplomatic approach to solving the issue. If that fails, war it is. THAT is logical.
Has Hitchens ever gone up against a real theologian with teeth like John MacCarther, Piper, or Sproul? This McGrath appears to be handpicked by Hithchens.
Christopher would do better to first say that we should first attempt to dissuade our enemies before we try to destroy them. It's only fair. But then...
@ivlfounder To emphasize the likley core reason of him being scum. Theism can make many people ignorant and scum, not all, but certailny sum. Citing the source doesn't take away from the fact that he quite blatantly never even sounded to insinuate it as a wide brush.
@ivlfounder Of cousre they should, what part of the comment being targeted at a single person and not an entire group of people did you not seem to grasp?
@ivlfounder If they're actually dirty then you're right, it isn't wrong. If you're calling them dirty "just because" they're a Jew, then it's wrong. What part of your simple mind can't grasp this simple concept?
@ivlfounder Tell you what moron, why don't you stop taking every negative comment as an attack on someones religion even when it's very clearly explained it has nothing to do with their beliefs, no matter how stupid said beliefs may be when compared to reality.
@ivlfounder You sure like pretending to play the victim don't you? Also I already explained why I haven't, because I don't know that you're dirty, let alone a Jew. The dirty part would only be justified if you where dirty, it would be irrelevant to your faith or lack there of.
What I do know is that you're a moron that seems addicted to attention.
@ivlfounder I'm still waiting for you to defend your point with any amount of reason or sensibility, failing to do this again however will let me comfortably abandon your dismally pathetic drivel and lack of any sort of rational or sensible point beyond proving yourself nothing more than a child desperate for attention.
@ivlfounder Because I never insinuated that I wanted to call you nor anyone else that ding dong. Of course if you had anything more than the reading comprehension of a 2 year old you'd know that, instead you're intellectually dishonest and it's just easier to block your dumb ass.
@ivlfounder Right because it's not like I said that he was referring to a single person and not to an entire group of people right? Though I could see how you could miss that, it would require reading my first response before you went on your cartmen dribble you stupid fuck.
Hitchens, ' God is not great' is one of my favourite books. For similar great thoughts try Dan Barker, John W. Loftus, Robert M Price, Valerie Tarico, Victor Stenger, Bart Ehrman, Ken Humphreys, Richard Carrier, Ken Pulliam, Keith Parsons, Gary Greenberg, Robert Ingersoll, Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, Earl Doherty, Israel Finkelstein, Daniel Dennett, C Dennis Mckinsey, Joseph Wheless, Bertrand Russell, Sam Harris
Hitchens, ' God is not great' is one of my favourite books. For similar great thoughts try Dan Barker, John W. Loftus, Robert M Price, Valerie Tarico, Victor Stenger, Bart Ehrman, Ken Humphreys, Richard Carrier, Ken Pulliam, Keith Parsons, Gary Greenberg, Robert Ingersoll, Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, Earl Doherty, Israel Finkelstein, Daniel Dennett, C Dennis Mckinsey, Joseph Wheless, Bertrand Russell, Sam Harris
Why the fuck should I do that? Fuck Terrorists. Fuck the Westboro Baptist Church. Fuck anyone who wants to destroy the human race. I don't love you, I want you fucking dead.
you would need to be a saint ' forgive the pun ' to put up with the stupidity of the average christian speaker so i do not blame him for getting a little annoyed . but i did not think he was that bad .. i have seen him verbaly destroy people who were a lot smarter than this guy .
Hitchins came across like a clown there!!! I am shocked that people are supporting him in their comments... He came across bitter, angry, hateful and vengeful. Incredible that people here think his statements are a progression on the original question in the debate about the 'bitter, angry, vengeful' nature of God. All that Hitchins said was "so long as you agree with my judgment on moral matters and right and wrong, the methods of enforcing them are irrelevant'. Sounds like Stalin.
@ivlfounder Most probably. There will be something similar wrong with Dawkins. But, Hitchins is a clown. He sounds eloquent; but in fact, some of the words he uses don't even exist! I suspect, in his fervor, he gets a little to excited, and confused.
@ocblenheimpl "There will be something similar wrong with Dawkins" Where is your evidence for this? or are you trying to demean someone without a source of evidence, and then use that same lack of evidence to confirm your belief in fantasy? All you have done is Suspect, assume, and make up, then present them at truths. Well done Sherlock.
@ocblenheimpl It is brilliant how you attack someones character, because you can not wiggle out of the corner that you have been pushed into. Instead you talk about their personal life (And falsely) and attack that because the comments from that person have gave you a stuttering none answer, well done you.
@BunWackettBuzzard Wriggling out of what corner?! you have no idea what my position is. I am discussing the personal attributes of a man who has put himself in front of the world (to be judged) by staging this debate. I am not attacking his personal life; just he persona that he carried across in this debate. He ranted like a madman; like a clown, performing.
@ocblenheimpl Yes you are right, I have no idea what your position is because you indulged yourself with attacking someone for rambling without pointing out the floors in his arguments. You used Buzz words like "excited, confused, suspect, fervor" And not comment on the parts you disagree with. What parts don't you disagree with? You have said a whole load of nothing.
The Christian fellow, just rambled about his personal feelings on how to interpret scripture, in that it is an ongoing thing that will "FIT" in the future. Of course it will "FIT". It will be "MADE" to "FIT". It was utter nonsense and it's hard to deny Hitchens logic, even though Im not with him on all his insights, he is clearly the most logical level head there. By a long, long way. I do feel organized religion has to be overcome and defeated. This in no way portends to spirituality.
@pboisei see: the Israeli government, it's military and it's Zionism. Oh yeah, and the book, the Buybull that clearly states they are better humans than everyone else. Israel = Isis, Ra and Elohim. Get informed.
Israel is in fact a free democracy with rights guaranteed to all, no matter what religion or race, you should get informed and stop acting like a pretentious no it all.
Always amazes me, the sophistry of these "Christian scholars". They invent nonsense as required to prop up and resuscitate their ridiculous Frankenstein monster (the christian faith). They always have.
"we must avoid dehumanization of our enemies" according to the dumbass professor.
Mr Hitchens is of course right. We must destroy our enemies, muslim fanatics, extremists. They cannot be reasoned with. They WISH to die for "Allah" by destroying non-believers, the 'great Satan', the infidel ..us
Hitchens asks, who after 9/11 heard the clergy say we should love our enemies. I did. I'm in church, and Hitchens isn't. I'm in a better position to know.
I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more strident claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general secular social perspectives
According to Jesus, the way to achive peace and harmony on earth is to treat other people as we ourselves wish to be treated. According to Jesus, the correct goal of education is to know what is true and the correct purpose is so we can be free. According to Christopher Hitchens... well, so far, Hitchens hasn't bothered to actually come up with a better idea. Maybe that's because he's just a bullshitter, who can say for sure?
@TheDano1947 Well, I was just observing the way communication between the parties takes place: rationale, tone, behavior, treating the other party. And if one speaks for a party, naturally ... the way he speaks and what it is being said reflects his option. So between arguing just for the sake of arguing and insulting + lying, I don't buy that as a way of life nor proving that the other side is wrong. And by the way, I prefer Islam.
@ivlfounder He's probably the most controversial speaker of our time(and without corruption from outside forces. Not to mention the immense amount of knowledge and experience he's collected and interpreted for the impoverished nations most would rather forget about. And before you try it, he didn't support Bush overtime and if you would listen to his reasons for wanting to go into the middle east, you'll see how little him and the Bush administration agreed on.
@FinalHeresy : I agree with you. It is funny how McGrath talks so much but says nothing. He reminds me of Cornel West by spinning and never really answering the questions presented before him. I believe his intelligence is overrated.
the more I read into hitchen's ideas the more I'm convinced he is a complete fool. his idea of dehumanizing a person simply because you are enemies is not just offensive against the laws of god, but even the laws of humanist man. and by the way this is the same concept that was used by adolf hitler in his justification of the holocaust he murdered millions of people because he viewed them as animals not as gods creation.
@sourheart73 In 'Mein Kampf', Hitler wrote he was "doing God's work". Hitler did those things because he was a megalomaniacal racist with a facistic political dogma in his hands. If you are arguing a man's lack of belief in God will lead to genocide, I suggest you have a massive re-think.
@jazz4 I actually wasnt saying that at all. I was merely pointing out that certain aspects of darwins theories such as survival of the fittest, and man is an animal have influenced things such as the holocaust. also the founder of communism Karl Marx was greatly influenced by evolution he saw communism as the final evolution of man. and of course communism led to a lot of problems so you can probably blame Darwin's theories for that
@jazz4 Adolf Hitler did make a number of references to a divine providence, and given his seemingly miraculous escapes from harm, such as surviving a mustard gas attack in World War I and escaping numerous assassination attempts, I don't doubt that he was sincere. But whether or not this constituted a personal God- I'm not so sure.
I've really tried listen to McGrath, in hope of an interesting, intellectually challenging theist point of view, but he spews the same nebulous bullshit, that his fellow christian thinkers do.
"There are only two ways of living, one is as if nothing is a miracle, and the second is that everything is a miracle. I belive in the latter." --- Albert Einstein
"I used to be a atheist, till I thought I was God." ---- John Lennon
3:44-55 Hypocrite. This question was "Is God on the fringe because he destroys his enemies" Why are we as humans allowed to "encompass the destruction of our enemies" but Almighty God is heaped upon with hate and criticism for the account of his warring with horrendous nations that killed there children in sex rites; cured illness with shit-milk and were always totalitarian brutes. ALSO loving your enemies merely mean not lowering yourself and and partaking in their guilt.
"An atheist doesn't call what is beyond his intelligence & knowledge a "god", he views it as a place to explore and learn; not worship or pray to." - Me
Of course he'd like to look at the scripture through a lens. That's what brainwashed individuals need to do.
It is only when you decide to trust your own mind's power (as opposed to blindly believing that you NEED to look at an issue in a certain light) that you can begin to actually analyze anything.
@ivlfounder Don't be absurd, those who are anti-theist are that way because the books of faith that claim to be true spread wickedness. Read the story of Lot, whom offers his daughters to be humuliated and violated by a mob so that angles (which according to tradition don't have sexual organs to be violated) could be spared. "its a story about hospitality" thats madness! would you offer your daughters to be raped in the name of hospitality?
"Turn the other cheek" and "love your enemies" are not suicide pacts.
A slap in the face is not a threat against life, livelihood or even health; it is merely and insult. So by "turn the other cheek" Christians simply hold to the idea of "don't sweat the small stuff" or "consider the source", just don't let ego and pride lead to escalation of conflict. Suffer unjust indignity humbly.
By "love your enemies" we are to war justly, not with vindictiveness, but with honor and respect for life.
Everyone who tries to debate Hitch, just makes themselves look so silly and stupid. What a President Hitch would have made. Maybe we could have gotten something done.
@Sneezlebob You can't be serious. If you are....you clearly don't understand what constitutes a legitimate argument. McGrath is nothing here. His arguments are meaningless, because scripture isn't evidence.
@Sneezlebob Well I cant count on my hands how many times Hitchens and Dawkins kicked a theologian out the room... Whats your point? There still is not a single shred of evidence for a god. And the only reason to believe in it is out of fear and blind faith.
Hitchens may be a more interesting speaker, but he's just as much of a fanatic as someone like Bill O'Reilly. "Destroy your enemies!" And who might those be, exactly? With such a broad definition, your enemies could be anyone. What a prude
MADsurvivor15 1 week ago
with that said R.I.P. Hitch, miss you already.......and if there is a God may he bless you and if not ? Oh well.......
billyboy630 1 month ago
I love Hitchens and as a Christian I hope to see him in heaven , so i can have a scotch and a cigarette with him. But its plain as day he vitriol of "religion". And while he a GREAT speaker and writer and provacatuer he is no theologian nor philosopher. What truly amazes me is that many of the youtube crowd , who claim there is no God , fair enough, but then act as if Hitchens is a God lol. Especially when so may of his arguments are bombastic and non sensical
billyboy630 1 month ago
Well we arnt worshiping him, making a statue of him and making a religion out of him. He like Ghandi is a man to be respected, for his words, his actions, his intellect and his contribution to the world, if you consider that acting like he is god then you have a loose definition on what god is. How are ghosts supposed to smoke something that is well not ghostly? Your lungs wont work either.
scienceatheism 1 month ago
@scienceatheism LOL
billyboy630 1 month ago
"Expiable"? Oh come on! Now you're just makin' that up!
bgiv2010 1 month ago
if i were to answer your question, in a way which would answer it, i would rephrase to say that, in my following speech that my answer could be phrased as....JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION FOR FUCK SAKE
tat2willify 1 month ago 3
@ivlfounder I doubt it buddy. He's likely trying to figure out how to defend his man made ideology without people booing him.
BER2ERKER 1 month ago
@rightwing52000 haha
ralax3 1 month ago
POPE'S BALLS!
Jestlow 1 month ago
What?...
aciDC14 2 months ago
While McGrath talks, Im looking at Hitchens' body language and Im trying to figure out what is going through that brilliant mind of his. LoL I can think of so many funny things...
test123ok 2 months ago 5
@test123ok
When McGrath looks at Hitchens he's trying to figure out on what part of the head Hitchens mother dropped her child.
ivlfounder 1 month ago
@test123ok I do the same thing in all his videos hahaha
Carpenter4134 4 weeks ago
McGrath says absolutely nothing. Answer the fucking question, you idiotic hypocrite.
visigrog 2 months ago in playlist Christopher Hitchens (1949 - 2011)
I'm an atheist and I have great respect for Christopher Hitchens, but he was wrong. The Christian was right in not dehumanizing the supposed "enemy" and ignore the possible motivations (political, religious whatever). Hitchens was too extreme.
wildreams 2 months ago in playlist Christopher Hitchens (1949 - 2011)
can someone explain to me the difference between hitchens and a terrorist fundamentalist? they are both proponents of the us v. them mentality, and both use words such as enemy, immoral, evil, and preach the violence and destruction of anything that's disagreeable with "us." only difference is that fundamentalists hide behind religion and hitchens hides behind "logic", as he calls it. by the way, i'm not religious, i'd just like a common sense perspective on this man. thanks.
izzimarczak 3 months ago
@izzimarczak It's extremely hard to believe you're not religious if all you picked up are those words.
hmsrenown 3 months ago
@hmsrenown you missed my point, but ok... i pointed it out that he's using words that "religious" ppl use, but he's using them under his own umbrella promoting the same message he's fighting: violence. he thinks he has a right to it under his perspective, while others don't cause they're "religious." i didn't ask for someone who doesn't know me to put a label on me, i genuinely want a common sense perspective on this man in regards to this particular segment of the video.
izzimarczak 3 months ago
@izzimarczak I think you missed the point wildly. The focal point of the debate is whether violence in organized religion today is at the core or only on the fringes, and Hitchens was arguing for the former. Now he did not advocate violent eradication of religion at any point, I fail to see how you concluded what you did.
hmsrenown 3 months ago
@hmsrenown I listened to the entire debate and i think i got his point, i just don't completely agree with it. i like this man, i support many of his points, but it's very hard for me to just "agree" when I hear what he says at 3:40. to me those words sound as if they were coming from a radical, except hitchens is on the opposite side of the extreme. he's become the thing he's fighting except he thinks he's right. well, so does the other side. what do we as a society do about this clash?
izzimarczak 3 months ago
@izzimarczak If I understood his words correctly, he was disputing the idea of "love your enemy" as moral. His argument against that is due to the fact that the "enemy" may have committed appalling crimes, "loving your enemy" is clearly immoral. I have struggled to find a different meaning to the clip.
hmsrenown 3 months ago
@hmsrenown i heard the same words, along with "educating a cold steady dislike of them and encompass their destruction"... who will define our enemies, how far do we go to destroy them? loving your enemy is not "clearly" immoral, otherwise everyone would agree on it. i think it's more moral to learn why someone does what they do and how do we influence it, politically, culturally, religiously, before we accept hitchen's proposal to just go and "destroy" them. it all seems to rest on opinion...
izzimarczak 3 months ago
@izzimarczak I would agree that he went further than he should. But loving your enemy from a literal understanding is quite absurd.
hmsrenown 3 months ago
@hmsrenown i agree too, it is absurd...along with a whole bunch of other things that religion promotes. in no way am i supporting religious dogma, i'm not even bothering to comment on the other guy, no point. but with hitches he actually has good points but he's also extreme and i think he needs to be challenged on that. i think we need to be extra cautious with people who have a platform cause sometimes they go too far even though they mean well.
izzimarczak 3 months ago
@hmsrenown If all people operated on the principles Hitchins proposes, then war would be perpetual (and it is). I think Christianity has a point here, though religion certainly isn't behind the origin of this concept. One of the parties involved must break the paranoid cycle of conflict in a strategic and innocuous way or we could very easily end in a nuclear war. We've evolved to the point where both mindlessly defending yourself and turning the other cheek are just as suicidal.
borreLore 3 months ago
@hmsrenown And just to clarify, I don't think turning the other cheek is any more logical. A logical person wouldn't hold a "cold steady dislike of [his enemy] and encompass their destruction", or "turn the other cheek" as they get pissed on. Instead, they would first defend themselves, attempt to understand their enemy, and finally, attempt a diplomatic approach to solving the issue. If that fails, war it is. THAT is logical.
borreLore 3 months ago
@borreLore Absolutely agree with you, I'm just arguing Hitchens's words aren't radical.
hmsrenown 3 months ago
Has Hitchens ever gone up against a real theologian with teeth like John MacCarther, Piper, or Sproul? This McGrath appears to be handpicked by Hithchens.
koishooter 4 months ago
hitchens for the win, every single time!
logicaltruth100 4 months ago
Christopher would do better to first say that we should first attempt to dissuade our enemies before we try to destroy them. It's only fair. But then...
InvincibleIronyMan 4 months ago
"Our faith based forces are about as much use as the pope's balls in this struggle." Too true.
patrick112590 5 months ago
Hitchens is so bored. So bored. Just like me. Stay your tongue, you theist scum.
Kir0l 5 months ago
@Kir0l
Oh yeah after all being a theist makes one a scum.
ivlfounder 5 months ago
@ivlfounder Ignorant and gullible yes, scum? Not really. Mcgrath though who the poster your responding to was clearly referencing, yes.
DarkBunnyLord 5 months ago
@DarkBunnyLord
Why even mention he's a theist if kirlol wasn't insulting theists in general?
ivlfounder 5 months ago
@ivlfounder To emphasize the likley core reason of him being scum. Theism can make many people ignorant and scum, not all, but certailny sum. Citing the source doesn't take away from the fact that he quite blatantly never even sounded to insinuate it as a wide brush.
DarkBunnyLord 5 months ago
@DarkBunnyLord
I guess Jewish people shouldn't be offended them when say you call them dirty jews.
ivlfounder 5 months ago
@ivlfounder Of cousre they should, what part of the comment being targeted at a single person and not an entire group of people did you not seem to grasp?
DarkBunnyLord 5 months ago
@DarkBunnyLord
Oh I'm sorry after all when you call someone say a dirty Jew it's in no way wrong.
ivlfounder 5 months ago
@ivlfounder If they're actually dirty then you're right, it isn't wrong. If you're calling them dirty "just because" they're a Jew, then it's wrong. What part of your simple mind can't grasp this simple concept?
DarkBunnyLord 5 months ago
@DarkBunnyLord
Tell you what Cartman.
Why don't you go ask a Rabbi why it's wrong to call some one a dirty Jew?
ivlfounder 5 months ago
@ivlfounder Tell you what moron, why don't you stop taking every negative comment as an attack on someones religion even when it's very clearly explained it has nothing to do with their beliefs, no matter how stupid said beliefs may be when compared to reality.
DarkBunnyLord 5 months ago
@DarkBunnyLord
Why don't you just tell me to shut my dirty jew mouth?
You know you want to.
ivlfounder 5 months ago
@ivlfounder You sure like pretending to play the victim don't you? Also I already explained why I haven't, because I don't know that you're dirty, let alone a Jew. The dirty part would only be justified if you where dirty, it would be irrelevant to your faith or lack there of.
What I do know is that you're a moron that seems addicted to attention.
DarkBunnyLord 5 months ago
@DarkBunnyLord
Come on Cartmen get it over with.
ivlfounder 5 months ago
@ivlfounder I'm still waiting for you to defend your point with any amount of reason or sensibility, failing to do this again however will let me comfortably abandon your dismally pathetic drivel and lack of any sort of rational or sensible point beyond proving yourself nothing more than a child desperate for attention.
DarkBunnyLord 5 months ago
@DarkBunnyLord
Keep telling yourself that Cartman.
ivlfounder 5 months ago
@ivlfounder Ironic for an idiot that's crying about name calling. Have fun being a deceitful joke of a human being.
DarkBunnyLord 5 months ago
@DarkBunnyLord
"a deceitful joke of a human being"?
Why don't you tell me to shut my jew mouth like you want to?
ivlfounder 5 months ago
@ivlfounder Because I never insinuated that I wanted to call you nor anyone else that ding dong. Of course if you had anything more than the reading comprehension of a 2 year old you'd know that, instead you're intellectually dishonest and it's just easier to block your dumb ass.
DarkBunnyLord 5 months ago
@DarkBunnyLord
Oh no you just support calling people theist scum which is nothing like calling someone a dirty jew.
ivlfounder 5 months ago
@ivlfounder Right because it's not like I said that he was referring to a single person and not to an entire group of people right? Though I could see how you could miss that, it would require reading my first response before you went on your cartmen dribble you stupid fuck.
DarkBunnyLord 5 months ago
@DarkBunnyLord
I guess there's nothing wrong with you calling Obama a Black Bastard then is there?
ivlfounder 5 months ago
Hitch looks absolutely bored to tears while McGrath is speaking. Obviously, because McGrath didn't even answer the question.
DogsinPants 5 months ago
I cannot believe the patience that Hitchens shows.
He fails, in certain ways, but he should have.
The fucking charlatan (there really is no other way to say it) that he's arguing with is pathetic.
hairyreasoner 6 months ago
Hitchens, ' God is not great' is one of my favourite books. For similar great thoughts try Dan Barker, John W. Loftus, Robert M Price, Valerie Tarico, Victor Stenger, Bart Ehrman, Ken Humphreys, Richard Carrier, Ken Pulliam, Keith Parsons, Gary Greenberg, Robert Ingersoll, Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, Earl Doherty, Israel Finkelstein, Daniel Dennett, C Dennis Mckinsey, Joseph Wheless, Bertrand Russell, Sam Harris
zytigon 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hitchens, ' God is not great' is one of my favourite books. For similar great thoughts try Dan Barker, John W. Loftus, Robert M Price, Valerie Tarico, Victor Stenger, Bart Ehrman, Ken Humphreys, Richard Carrier, Ken Pulliam, Keith Parsons, Gary Greenberg, Robert Ingersoll, Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, Earl Doherty, Israel Finkelstein, Daniel Dennett, C Dennis Mckinsey, Joseph Wheless, Bertrand Russell, Sam Harris
zytigon 6 months ago
"Love Thy Enemy"
Why the fuck should I do that? Fuck Terrorists. Fuck the Westboro Baptist Church. Fuck anyone who wants to destroy the human race. I don't love you, I want you fucking dead.
CenkIsAdorable 6 months ago
Hitchens comments only make sense if the enemy is truly evil.
tybrady64 6 months ago
@rightwing52000 But sadly, he is INCREDIBLY smart. It such a waste that he spends so much of his time trying to prove the currently unprovable.
courtlandmcdaniel 6 months ago
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fuck religion ,logic is the answer , theoreticalphysics.webs.com
paginipro 7 months ago
implying the pope has balls....
dav3fk 7 months ago
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DINA RIGBY IS FUCKIN' DEAD!!!
amazon.com/Dish-Served-Tales-Revenge-ebook/dp/B004W82MCK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311707526&sr=8-1
2009frankcastle 7 months ago
FORA TV sucks. Stay away from it. It's all just a big gimmick.
buddybleau 7 months ago
@buddybleau Why is it edited? Seems to me we are hearing both sides of the argument here.
pilgrimpater 7 months ago
@buddybleau Bit like religion then I suppose. haha
SilverBallers47 4 months ago 2
@SilverBallers47 Yep! Thats for sure!
buddybleau 4 months ago
you would need to be a saint ' forgive the pun ' to put up with the stupidity of the average christian speaker so i do not blame him for getting a little annoyed . but i did not think he was that bad .. i have seen him verbaly destroy people who were a lot smarter than this guy .
MrStewart149 7 months ago
Hitchins came across like a clown there!!! I am shocked that people are supporting him in their comments... He came across bitter, angry, hateful and vengeful. Incredible that people here think his statements are a progression on the original question in the debate about the 'bitter, angry, vengeful' nature of God. All that Hitchins said was "so long as you agree with my judgment on moral matters and right and wrong, the methods of enforcing them are irrelevant'. Sounds like Stalin.
ocblenheimpl 7 months ago
@ocblenheimpl " He came across bitter, angry, hateful and vengeful. "
- And right.. you left off , right.
Sorry it upsets you... next time you want someone to point out the short comings of your superstitious beliefs... be sure to ask for somene nicer.
Roper122 7 months ago
@ocblenheimpl
Hitchens has never gotten over his father leaving him.
ivlfounder 7 months ago
@ivlfounder Most probably. There will be something similar wrong with Dawkins. But, Hitchins is a clown. He sounds eloquent; but in fact, some of the words he uses don't even exist! I suspect, in his fervor, he gets a little to excited, and confused.
ocblenheimpl 7 months ago
@ocblenheimpl "There will be something similar wrong with Dawkins" Where is your evidence for this? or are you trying to demean someone without a source of evidence, and then use that same lack of evidence to confirm your belief in fantasy? All you have done is Suspect, assume, and make up, then present them at truths. Well done Sherlock.
BunWackettBuzzard 7 months ago
@ocblenheimpl It is brilliant how you attack someones character, because you can not wiggle out of the corner that you have been pushed into. Instead you talk about their personal life (And falsely) and attack that because the comments from that person have gave you a stuttering none answer, well done you.
BunWackettBuzzard 7 months ago
@BunWackettBuzzard Wriggling out of what corner?! you have no idea what my position is. I am discussing the personal attributes of a man who has put himself in front of the world (to be judged) by staging this debate. I am not attacking his personal life; just he persona that he carried across in this debate. He ranted like a madman; like a clown, performing.
ocblenheimpl 7 months ago
@ocblenheimpl Yes you are right, I have no idea what your position is because you indulged yourself with attacking someone for rambling without pointing out the floors in his arguments. You used Buzz words like "excited, confused, suspect, fervor" And not comment on the parts you disagree with. What parts don't you disagree with? You have said a whole load of nothing.
BunWackettBuzzard 7 months ago
The Christian fellow, just rambled about his personal feelings on how to interpret scripture, in that it is an ongoing thing that will "FIT" in the future. Of course it will "FIT". It will be "MADE" to "FIT". It was utter nonsense and it's hard to deny Hitchens logic, even though Im not with him on all his insights, he is clearly the most logical level head there. By a long, long way. I do feel organized religion has to be overcome and defeated. This in no way portends to spirituality.
outofslumber 7 months ago
white noise nonsense from Mr McGrath
vashna3799 7 months ago
Christopher Hitchens! Keep up the good fight. You are my hero.
twistedH3L1X 8 months ago
Everyone always points to the old testament for hatred and violence, but how many times have the Jewish people been guilty of hatred and violence??
pboisei 8 months ago
@pboisei see: the Israeli government, it's military and it's Zionism. Oh yeah, and the book, the Buybull that clearly states they are better humans than everyone else. Israel = Isis, Ra and Elohim. Get informed.
cuttingedgecomix 8 months ago
@cuttingedgecomix
Israel is in fact a free democracy with rights guaranteed to all, no matter what religion or race, you should get informed and stop acting like a pretentious no it all.
pboisei 8 months ago
Always amazes me, the sophistry of these "Christian scholars". They invent nonsense as required to prop up and resuscitate their ridiculous Frankenstein monster (the christian faith). They always have.
"we must avoid dehumanization of our enemies" according to the dumbass professor.
Mr Hitchens is of course right. We must destroy our enemies, muslim fanatics, extremists. They cannot be reasoned with. They WISH to die for "Allah" by destroying non-believers, the 'great Satan', the infidel ..us
gangster3591 8 months ago
Hitchens asks, who after 9/11 heard the clergy say we should love our enemies. I did. I'm in church, and Hitchens isn't. I'm in a better position to know.
Mystagogia87 8 months ago
Progressive revelation, lol
k2t0f12d 8 months ago in playlist Christopher Hitchens
BABIES ARE PURE.
16541577 8 months ago
prof mcGrath ,is nauseating ,he turns my stomach ,the creep:(
badslabber 8 months ago
@badslabber Yes I agree, I find him very disturbing. Infact he is a very good reprisentive for the christian church I find that repulsive too.
greeny202a 8 months ago
@badslabber I think it's cognitive dissonance, not nausea.
v33punk 8 months ago
@v33punk NAH , hes just a fucking annoying dickhead ,AMEN
badslabber 8 months ago
@badslabber Pretty smart there!
v33punk 8 months ago
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I think it may also prove helpful to some of the viewers here to try to evaluate many of the more strident claims of the anti-theist critique ("brights") from a ideological/ metaphysics perspective. Check out the recent article by Jackson Lears in the May 16, 2011 issue of the The Nation entitled "Same Old New Atheism" .The article offers a compelling analysis of Sam Harris' works. Consideration is given to general secular social perspectives
shieldsff 8 months ago
jews aren't god's people , logicians are,see it here = theoreticalphysics.webs.com
paginipro 8 months ago
isn't there more?
M3t4lManiac 8 months ago
@PhysicalsimForever
That claim seems to pop up often whenever someone sees their champion fall.
ivlfounder 8 months ago
god = logic theoreticalphysics.webs.com
paginipro 8 months ago
I'm gonna have to repeat that phrase - "as much use as the pope's balls." Perfect!
sillynut331 8 months ago
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According to Jesus, the way to achive peace and harmony on earth is to treat other people as we ourselves wish to be treated. According to Jesus, the correct goal of education is to know what is true and the correct purpose is so we can be free. According to Christopher Hitchens... well, so far, Hitchens hasn't bothered to actually come up with a better idea. Maybe that's because he's just a bullshitter, who can say for sure?
richardaberdeen 8 months ago
I agree witth neither, simple
taditoo 8 months ago
McGrath is a lying dodging bible-kisser
sonykroket 8 months ago
Am I the only person here who wants to punch the good 'Dr'? Thank God for academics...
hdmccart 8 months ago
@hdmccart Fuck God, hard up his rotten ass.
WHIREAS 8 months ago
@WHIREAS
I'm so sorry your parents treatest you so bad.
ivlfounder 8 months ago
You don't have to love your enemy, but you can turn an enemy into a friend by showing them compassion
TheDano1947 9 months ago
The option of atheism makes less sense than any religion...
mirnesalic 9 months ago
@mirnesalic What exactly are the options you speak of??
TheDano1947 9 months ago
@TheDano1947 Well, I was just observing the way communication between the parties takes place: rationale, tone, behavior, treating the other party. And if one speaks for a party, naturally ... the way he speaks and what it is being said reflects his option. So between arguing just for the sake of arguing and insulting + lying, I don't buy that as a way of life nor proving that the other side is wrong. And by the way, I prefer Islam.
mirnesalic 9 months ago
@mirnesalic
...makes less sense to you obviously, right? That's what you meant? or you meant that it makes less sense for everybody?
Carehuea 9 months ago
Is it just me or does this guy want to be Hitchens?
RytanEmpire 9 months ago
@RytanEmpire
Why would anyone want to be him?
ivlfounder 9 months ago
@ivlfounder He's probably the most controversial speaker of our time(and without corruption from outside forces. Not to mention the immense amount of knowledge and experience he's collected and interpreted for the impoverished nations most would rather forget about. And before you try it, he didn't support Bush overtime and if you would listen to his reasons for wanting to go into the middle east, you'll see how little him and the Bush administration agreed on.
RytanEmpire 9 months ago
@RytanEmpire
Are you really this naive?
ivlfounder 9 months ago
The Pope's balls. There's a song in there somewhere. It'd be an instrumental.
markvz 9 months ago
he s like ali at his best
phildirt3 9 months ago 5
As much use as the pope's balls. Pretty much sums his opponent up.
bigbadbananaboy 9 months ago
You would think someone who went to oxford would be more intelligent (and im not talking about hitchens, he's brilliant)
FinalHeresy 10 months ago
@FinalHeresy : I agree with you. It is funny how McGrath talks so much but says nothing. He reminds me of Cornel West by spinning and never really answering the questions presented before him. I believe his intelligence is overrated.
7A35 9 months ago
@7A35
The man has a PHD in natural science from where again?
ivlfounder 9 months ago
the more I read into hitchen's ideas the more I'm convinced he is a complete fool. his idea of dehumanizing a person simply because you are enemies is not just offensive against the laws of god, but even the laws of humanist man. and by the way this is the same concept that was used by adolf hitler in his justification of the holocaust he murdered millions of people because he viewed them as animals not as gods creation.
sourheart73 10 months ago
@sourheart73 In 'Mein Kampf', Hitler wrote he was "doing God's work". Hitler did those things because he was a megalomaniacal racist with a facistic political dogma in his hands. If you are arguing a man's lack of belief in God will lead to genocide, I suggest you have a massive re-think.
jazz4 10 months ago
@jazz4 I actually wasnt saying that at all. I was merely pointing out that certain aspects of darwins theories such as survival of the fittest, and man is an animal have influenced things such as the holocaust. also the founder of communism Karl Marx was greatly influenced by evolution he saw communism as the final evolution of man. and of course communism led to a lot of problems so you can probably blame Darwin's theories for that
sourheart73 10 months ago
@jazz4 Adolf Hitler did make a number of references to a divine providence, and given his seemingly miraculous escapes from harm, such as surviving a mustard gas attack in World War I and escaping numerous assassination attempts, I don't doubt that he was sincere. But whether or not this constituted a personal God- I'm not so sure.
writersblock26 10 months ago
@sourheart73 hahahahahahahahahhahahahhhahahahahahah
Yaymudkip 9 months ago
Go Hitchens!!!!!!!
enalopez26 10 months ago
0:30 - 2:00
You can almost see the steam coming out of Hitchens' ears.
rmcdaniel423 10 months ago
you gotta love him!
ExNihiloJimmy 11 months ago
Apparently the old testament saying slavery is O.K. human sacrifice is good etc can be reinterpreted through Jesus as being love your neighbour. Hmm
mifmalcomson 1 year ago
I've really tried listen to McGrath, in hope of an interesting, intellectually challenging theist point of view, but he spews the same nebulous bullshit, that his fellow christian thinkers do.
Chulacker 1 year ago
@Chulacker
Your failure to understand McGrath is not his fault.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder
who can? at least i cant.....ill have to suspend mi ability to reason in order to understand that much bullcrap
sl3ya44 1 year ago
@sl3ya44
Ah so because you disagree with him everything he has to say is bullcrap.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
Got Hitch-slapped!!
treysharkk 1 year ago
I applaud Christopher Hitchens thank you - hope you recover friend.
yellowocean01 1 year ago
Mcgrath is a joke. I can't understand why anyone would give him any time at all.
tranquist1 1 year ago
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"There are only two ways of living, one is as if nothing is a miracle, and the second is that everything is a miracle. I belive in the latter." --- Albert Einstein
"I used to be a atheist, till I thought I was God." ---- John Lennon
jaqzzzz 1 month ago
jaqzzzz 1 year ago
3:44-55 Hypocrite. This question was "Is God on the fringe because he destroys his enemies" Why are we as humans allowed to "encompass the destruction of our enemies" but Almighty God is heaped upon with hate and criticism for the account of his warring with horrendous nations that killed there children in sex rites; cured illness with shit-milk and were always totalitarian brutes. ALSO loving your enemies merely mean not lowering yourself and and partaking in their guilt.
TheScooteryt 1 year ago
"An atheist doesn't call what is beyond his intelligence & knowledge a "god", he views it as a place to explore and learn; not worship or pray to." - Me
mechanicmike69 1 year ago 2
Of course he'd like to look at the scripture through a lens. That's what brainwashed individuals need to do.
It is only when you decide to trust your own mind's power (as opposed to blindly believing that you NEED to look at an issue in a certain light) that you can begin to actually analyze anything.
theNimboo 1 year ago
@theNimboo
I guess every faith hater that's ever ead the bible is brainwashed then.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder Don't be absurd, those who are anti-theist are that way because the books of faith that claim to be true spread wickedness. Read the story of Lot, whom offers his daughters to be humuliated and violated by a mob so that angles (which according to tradition don't have sexual organs to be violated) could be spared. "its a story about hospitality" thats madness! would you offer your daughters to be raped in the name of hospitality?
jessiesims 1 year ago
@jessiesims
Really?
None of them have psychological issues?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder who? Theists? Please be a bit more specific in your question.
jessiesims 1 year ago
McGrath looks and talks like a pompous cock.
ahmedeox 1 year ago
@ahmedeox And Hitchens doesn't?
ElasticGiraffe 1 year ago
McGrath has to have the most annoying way of talking I've ever heard.
pschierhorn 1 year ago
I've never thought about the pope's balls before. I'm forced to agree. They are pretty much useless and irrelevant.
markvz 1 year ago
"Turn the other cheek" and "love your enemies" are not suicide pacts.
A slap in the face is not a threat against life, livelihood or even health; it is merely and insult. So by "turn the other cheek" Christians simply hold to the idea of "don't sweat the small stuff" or "consider the source", just don't let ego and pride lead to escalation of conflict. Suffer unjust indignity humbly.
By "love your enemies" we are to war justly, not with vindictiveness, but with honor and respect for life.
BlakeRudy 1 year ago
@BlakeRudy
I'm not sure I agree with you but this is a wonderful post.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
i was an enemy of God, and He loved me, and it changed my life. it was not empty. I am not empty anymore. Praise Him.
mouthbeats11l2l 1 year ago
@mouthbeats11l2l
Well said.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
Hitchens says after 9/11 nobody preached "love your enemy" from the pulpit. Um, I beg to differ. I heard a lot of that.
Jugglable 1 year ago 2
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@Jugglable
I know for a fact we had ministers in my town preaching "love your enemy" from the pulpit after 9/11. Pity those who pretend otherwise.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
this guy didnt answer the question!
WORLDARYANREVIVAL 1 year ago
tHIS MC GRATH DUDE JUST SOUNDS LIKE A FOOL HE HAS NO IDEA. LISTEN TO HIM AND JUST PISS YOURSELF.
johnjackzx10r 1 year ago
McGrath doesn't answer the question, he skated around it and found the tree.
sol3a1 1 year ago
@sol3a1 Dawkins and Hitchens constantly skate around questions so why can't ALister?
Sneezlebob 1 year ago
Everyone who tries to debate Hitch, just makes themselves look so silly and stupid. What a President Hitch would have made. Maybe we could have gotten something done.
rep300 1 year ago
@rep300 McGrath won.
Sneezlebob 1 year ago
@Sneezlebob You can't be serious. If you are....you clearly don't understand what constitutes a legitimate argument. McGrath is nothing here. His arguments are meaningless, because scripture isn't evidence.
rep300 1 year ago
@rep300 Anyone with eyes, ears, and a working brain could see that McGrath won the debate.
Sadly you have none of those traits.
Sneezlebob 1 year ago
@Sneezlebob Lets suppose he actually did win. A funny thing is that no debate has ever been won in favour of the existence of a god...
VC106893 1 year ago
@VC106893 John Lennox was voted the winner in 3 of his debates with Dawkins.
Sneezlebob 1 year ago 2
@Sneezlebob Well I cant count on my hands how many times Hitchens and Dawkins kicked a theologian out the room... Whats your point? There still is not a single shred of evidence for a god. And the only reason to believe in it is out of fear and blind faith.
VC106893 1 year ago
@VC106893 If theres not a single shred of evidence then Dawkins and Hitch should win the debate.
Sneezlebob 1 year ago
@Sneezlebob They do when they're debating whether there is a god yes or no...
VC106893 1 year ago
@VC106893 Apparently not because their debates span 9-part 10 minute youtube videos.
Sneezlebob 1 year ago
@Sneezlebob
I thought he had only debated with Dawkins twice.
Might you have a link?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder Wikipedia Lennox. It says who he has debated