Swollen sole and laminitis / founder - Dreamy

[melissam0ss]

amen!

[chelackie]

I am learning that ingrowing/overlaid bars can be the start of this ,causing coronary jamming,laminar wedges and the bars and ingrown sole pushes the heel of the internal foot up out of the capsule. Arched coronary bands are something to look out for,could save many horses from this disease.Trim your bars!

[Leodecaprio13]

well if you look at the x-ray look how the foot is shaped? hellooo

[sltydgg]

MTponygirl is on the right track. Laminitis and founder are often used interchangeable even by vets. The way I was taught laminitis is the loss of blood flow to the hooves due to death of surrounding tissue in the sensitive lamina in the foot. Healthy tissue normally sticks together, but the dead rotting tissue will swell (trishmdc86). Founder is the actual rotation of the coffin bone due caused by pulling away from the dead tissue that normally holds it in place.

[kaeso100]

@sltydgg Founder is a general term for the clinical term, Laminitis, they both refer to the same condition. Laminitis is the inflammation of the laminae. The exact aetiology is unknown, but the condition causes necrosis of the sensitive laminae, disabling their action as a support tissue for the pedal bone/distal phalanx/d3.

[JJJJview07]

@kaeso100 Founder and laminitis are two seperate concepts. Laminitis is inflamation of the laminae. Founder is the physical results of laminitis. Founder comes from a Latin word meaning "bottom". A nautical term in reference to a ship that has gone down at sea.

A horse can endure laminitis without foundering. It depends on the individual horse, the individual insult and severity of it and management.

[kaeso100]

@JJJJview07 I would say they are different stages and/or elements of the condition, rather than different concepts, but I appreciate your point.

[JJJJview07]

@kaeso100 You are correct, there are different stages.

Google Animal Health Foundation Click on Laminitis in the header. Scroll down a little over half way down the page. "What is the difference between laminitis and founder?"

good site... laminitisresearch . org

[kaeso100]

@JJJJview07 Had a read thanks. I'm still of the opinion that any damage/infection etc to the laminae compromises the stability and structure of the hoof. While rotation/movement of the pedal bone may not be dectable on x-ray, it is not fully supported by the damaged laminae. I believe the pedal bone is affected from any laminitic tissue, very closely correlating the phases of the condition, but yes, detection/cause/treatment and severity of it differs the outcome. But again, thanks for the info.

[melissam0ss]

@kaeso100 actually and probably a good many "rotations" are because when the bars are not trimmed as PART OF THE WALL, of which they are, then as they continue to grow and mash over and into the sole (which is also still growing and not being exfoliated) it will actuall PUSH the back of the hoof (the INSIDE part) UP AND UP until it literally bulges at the corary band and will continue to push everything up which, or course makes the heels high and makes the coffin bone tilt down. think about it.

[kaeso100]

@melissam0ss I would imagine having such a poor farrier would have many issues regarding the health of the foot, related structures and joints. I would hope that few 'rotations' would arise from such neglect.

[trishmcd86]

does any horse with the sole "puffed out" mean that it may have foundered? I just got a horse and his feet appear this way.

[sltydgg]

@trishmcd86 : If the -hoof wall- on top is puffed out there is a good chance the horse could have foundered (dead tissue). In the sole, severe founder can be recognized by the sole in front of the apex (tip) of the frog protruding abnormally. It should be concave or at worse flat with the apex. Convex is more than likely founder (the coffin bone is trying to rotate through the bottom of the sole). Hope this helps.

[gerickson100]

Thanks for posting this Gordon!!

[MTponygirl]

Founder is basically the acute phase of laminitis-- that is, laminitis is inflammation of the laminae or the tissue that connects the hoof wall to the hoof. Founder is when the inflammation causes the hoof wall to actually separate, like when you hit your thumb with a hammer and the nail comes off.

[xlxOrtizxlx]

Yeah so laminitis is curable hu... I have a mare that limps from her left hind leg and i dont know what she might have,,,, probably an abcess but she walks a little better then how abcessed horses do ..

[sltydgg]

While I agree with the tequniques of correction for rotation of the coffin bone shown in this video I would like to make some points clear to everyone.

[sltydgg]

First, the foot shown in the 1st part of the video is the horses foot six week or more after being shod. All foundered feet will look like this after six weeks or more regardless of the method used to treat them.

[sltydgg]

Second, a farrier who knew what he was doing would trim the heel down in much the same fashion as this gentleman to obtain relief, and then add a heart bar for added protection and comfort.

[sltydgg]

Lastly, going barefoot is fine for horses in soft ground environments, no argument. However, if you are going to expose your horse to harsh ground conditions they do need protection. I cant imagine any horse in the wild that would run along a gravel road or asphalt by choice. Take your shoes off and try it out for yourself if you have any doubts about the difference in comfort level.

[JessicaMaree1987]

sorry, there are many endurance horses that can prove you wrong here. barefoot for 1000's of miles and still going strong

an unconditioned hoof will defiantly be sore on rough surfaces as would any human foot that has not been toughened up. but indigenous ppl all over the world and in all sorts of climates went, and are still, barefoot.

it would be plain cruelty to expect a horse to travel perfectly barefoot after having its shoes removed, but with time, any horse can have rock-crunching hooves

[mortonfarrier]

@JessicaMaree1987 ok so ill take an average horse with shoes on, you can have one an arab (or what ever you want,i guessed arab by your comment) that is barefoot. Lets go ride for 10 days in the Sierra Nevada Mountains. I will bet $50,000 that i will ride out and you will be walking crying because the coffin bones of your horse is sticking out!

[JessicaMaree1987]

@mortonfarrier

like i said before, it would be cruel to expect a horse to go so far on UNCONDITIONED hooves. but thats the beautie of hoof boots! not shoes, nothing to restrict the hoof, but protected & able to travel the Nevada Mountains without trouble. u wouldnt expect a TB off the track to be an endurance horse, neither would you expect his hooves to cope. but thats why they need conditioning.

look into barefoot endurance horses , wild horses and their hooves. they are simply perfect.

[semtech30]

@mortonfarrier You are so rightchous.

Can you imagine 100 mi. barefoot.

If any make it their toast for a while. Not good for another 100 to soon.

Because their booted and not shod they still call them barefoot.

Checked out an endurance ride once. Many were pulled out.

Those that made it were booted.

Either way only the humane will consider protecting their beloved ride.

When their beat they always use the Wild horse for exhample.

Forgeting they dont' do 100mi. a day. maybe 3 or 1.

[MTponygirl]

Any horse that is kept on soft ground and ridden occasionally on rocky ground will need to wear shoes or boots to be comfortable. However if the horse is ridden LOTS on rocky ground, or if they live on a similar surface to where they work, they can be quite comfortable going barefoot on any surface, even gravel or asphalt.

[sltydgg]

If I took my shoes off and walked around long enough my feet would eventually get used to it also. However, I much prefer my NIKEs.

[xlxOrtizxlx]

Yeah hi there i would like to know what laminitis really is and what causes it,,Also founder is different then laminitis right????