I like the idea that humans would be feared and respected in the galaxy. The respect part is just a bonus though, i'd settle for being feared. That means they wont screw with us, less fighting for us.
What Quark doesn't get is that's a side effect of what makes humans so great. Life can get hard, everything can be stacked against us, we can be alone against our problems and become overwhelmed by them. What we won't do is give in to them. What we will do is buckle down and in the immortal words of Gandalf, tell the problems "You shall not pass!" or in other words "You will not overcome me!"
Loved this about DS9. The time they took to make the Ferengi, Cardassians, and Bajorns as more fleshed out alien races with their own customs and beliefs. And on top of that developing their own created races the Jem'Hadar, Vorta, and Changelings. I just wish their could have been more time for them to develop the Breen.
Quark is one of the wisest characters in the Star Trek Universe. The sad thing about his assessment of humans is quite correct except humans are far more dangerous than Klingons. Humans are real, Klingons are fiction.
The default state of the human mind is far more simplistic than that of a man with many broken premises, or a man who lives under trying conditions. It lies beneathe all learning, purely animal. A man who learns anything is beyond instinct. The priorities of man, his hierarchy of needs is only intrinsic in him insofar as it describes his rational course of action, or insofar as he is but an animal to be held to no greater standard than his instincts.
No species evolves in a vacuum. You don't claw your way to the top of the food chain by being the nicest critter on the planet; you get there by being the meanest most effective predator on your homeworld.
This is why I love DS9, it took a lot of aliens from TNG and evolved them into real characters. The early Ferenghi were little more then greedy trolls but here we get to see that at least two of them can be more.
@batlantern I LOVE that about DS9. As I understand it, the Ferengi were first introduced in TNG to be THE super bad villains for the series. Until the powers that be said "Hm, they're kinda goofy." Then came the Borg.
-But DS9 said "So they're capitalists, so what? There's still great stories we can tell with them." And they did!
I love one of Quark's comments: "What is the Federation but a Homo Sapien fan club?"
@batlantern Armin Shimmerman said one of the primary reasons he took the role of Quark was to undo the damage TNG did to the Ferengi. (He played the first Ferengi essentially, the one who spoke the most in "The Last Outpost"). He said the Ferengi were ridiculous in their first episode and damaged what they were trying to do to the point where the Ferengi couldn't be the top villain the writers were trying to establish them in being, because no one would have taken them seriously.
Humans evolved on a planet that constantly tried to kill us. That history is imprinted on our very DNA. Send us back to that time, even for a little while, and you find out just how the weakest of the large primates came to dominate Earth.
Isnt that pretty much the case for any animal with a survival instinct in a bad situation? I think Quarks discussion with Sisko about war crimes etc is more profound
@amarieoflothlorien Alien races often behaved "more human" because alien races were always created using some single exaggerated aspect of humanity (Ferengi greed, Romulan paranoia, Klingon violence...), whilst humanity in Star Trek had "evolved" into something better.
Quark is telling the truth. At first I didn't like DS9 but I watched it again and I fell in love with it. It showed how humanity would really react if everything were lost. DS9 is a crown jewel in all of Star Trek.
This is why DS9 is the best Trek. It treats the "improved humanity" of Trek like it should be treated, as a result of social and cultural factors. Remove those environmental factors, and you remove all the benefits humans gain from them. Other Treks, especially early TNG, have a habit of treating future humans as if their morality and ethics are innate, like they evolved some new structure in their brain that makes them better than us "primitive" 21st century humans.
@KingOfMadCows Good observation. Look at TNG's "The Neutral Zone" for the worst example - they defrost humans from the 20th century and Picard treats them like sub-humans, as if they were intrinsically less moral or something. But TOS was the most honest exploration of human nature in my book, with Kirk recognising that human beings were still "half savage" and they had an inherent streak of violence.
ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND CORRECT!!!!!!! its probably amognst the top ten most true statements i have ever heard! what would happen if our lights and entertainment went out along with basic food and water cut off??take our lazy tech away,and endanger our lives in a survival situation??no heat.no cold. no possesions? HA! one determined,young,healhy,and reasonably intelligent human would take out dozens of klingons at a time,without them ever seeing us!forget the fun of the match,they are in the way!
This was one of Quarks best scenes in this series. Almost always Quark is played for laughs. But here, there's nothing to laugh about. He's in trouble and he knows it.
I loved DS9. The earlier Treks were about establishing human ideals. This Trek was about putting those ideals to the fire and seeing how well they held up.
@outsideredge And Voyager was about taking everything those previous series did and took a giant dump on them and Enterprise was the writers of that series giving a giant "F8ck you!" to anyone who dared enjoy the franchise before that. Voyager SHOULD HAVE been taking the darkness of the DS9 to the next level by setting the civilized Starfleet ship all alone in unknown space that was more like the Wild West and less like what it was and Enterprise should have been about the Earth-Romulan War.
@AllTerroristsMustDie I do agree with you about Voyager, especially Jane Way such a terrible actress. But, as for Enterprise, the last episodes, such as when they dealt with the Tholians, were pretty clever.
Voyager was - by far closest to TOS than any other ST installment. And I think that you haven't seen VOY, as it had precisely what you are writing about.
@outsideredge Actually this, and all the Post-Roddenberry Treks, were about Berman squeezing as much money out of the franchise as possible. By abandoning the strict ideals Gene had created-relying on sex, mysticism, pointless drama, and cheap thrills.
@outsideredge It was more an attempt to make Trek still seem relevant past its prime. They thought it made the show challenging and deep to have human characters routinely abandoning the principles the Federation was built on.
Quark of all people should know that it applies to everyone, not just humans. He was around Bajor during the Cardassian occupation, and being exposed to such injustice and oppression turned the Bajorians into fierce people.
With out a dought the best saying of humans in star trek. Plus the only time Ground ponders come up so closely viewed in star trek as star trek likes too hide this bloody side.
The actor said of all his appearances on Trek shows, getting to give this line about humanity was one of the best moments of his career.
skalliavas 3 days ago
why do i find him comparing us to klingons a compliment? lol
Alleyneko 2 weeks ago
I like the idea that humans would be feared and respected in the galaxy. The respect part is just a bonus though, i'd settle for being feared. That means they wont screw with us, less fighting for us.
williams100292 2 weeks ago
What Quark doesn't get is that's a side effect of what makes humans so great. Life can get hard, everything can be stacked against us, we can be alone against our problems and become overwhelmed by them. What we won't do is give in to them. What we will do is buckle down and in the immortal words of Gandalf, tell the problems "You shall not pass!" or in other words "You will not overcome me!"
bengalifan 3 weeks ago
Loved this about DS9. The time they took to make the Ferengi, Cardassians, and Bajorns as more fleshed out alien races with their own customs and beliefs. And on top of that developing their own created races the Jem'Hadar, Vorta, and Changelings. I just wish their could have been more time for them to develop the Breen.
Spiderblade 1 month ago
Quark is one of the wisest characters in the Star Trek Universe. The sad thing about his assessment of humans is quite correct except humans are far more dangerous than Klingons. Humans are real, Klingons are fiction.
MikeSears100 2 months ago 6
The default state of the human mind is far more simplistic than that of a man with many broken premises, or a man who lives under trying conditions. It lies beneathe all learning, purely animal. A man who learns anything is beyond instinct. The priorities of man, his hierarchy of needs is only intrinsic in him insofar as it describes his rational course of action, or insofar as he is but an animal to be held to no greater standard than his instincts.
eggory 2 months ago
What inspired that? ive heard it before elsewhere.
canreymaster11 2 months ago
No species evolves in a vacuum. You don't claw your way to the top of the food chain by being the nicest critter on the planet; you get there by being the meanest most effective predator on your homeworld.
As always, DS9 RULES!!!
AndythePervert 2 months ago
Excellent scene.
Every thing Quark said was true.
godking 2 months ago 5
He's not wrong.
sunnchilde 2 months ago 3
This is why I love DS9, it took a lot of aliens from TNG and evolved them into real characters. The early Ferenghi were little more then greedy trolls but here we get to see that at least two of them can be more.
batlantern 3 months ago
@batlantern I LOVE that about DS9. As I understand it, the Ferengi were first introduced in TNG to be THE super bad villains for the series. Until the powers that be said "Hm, they're kinda goofy." Then came the Borg.
-But DS9 said "So they're capitalists, so what? There's still great stories we can tell with them." And they did!
I love one of Quark's comments: "What is the Federation but a Homo Sapien fan club?"
: D
TheRadical42 2 months ago
@batlantern Armin Shimmerman said one of the primary reasons he took the role of Quark was to undo the damage TNG did to the Ferengi. (He played the first Ferengi essentially, the one who spoke the most in "The Last Outpost"). He said the Ferengi were ridiculous in their first episode and damaged what they were trying to do to the point where the Ferengi couldn't be the top villain the writers were trying to establish them in being, because no one would have taken them seriously.
greenrangerv1 1 month ago
Humans evolved on a planet that constantly tried to kill us. That history is imprinted on our very DNA. Send us back to that time, even for a little while, and you find out just how the weakest of the large primates came to dominate Earth.
GamerFromJump 3 months ago
@GamerFromJump And we Hew-Mons will kill anything that tries to kill us first. Only we make sure we don't fail.
GeneralKenobiSIYE 3 months ago
It's true. Desperation and the need to survive can turn us into things that we wouldn't want to imagine.
robtul12 3 months ago
I would be nasty too when someone cut off my shower :P
Snowwie88 3 months ago
Isnt that pretty much the case for any animal with a survival instinct in a bad situation? I think Quarks discussion with Sisko about war crimes etc is more profound
TheRhinehart86 3 months ago
What Quark misses: most humans don't WANT that kind of living situation, where certain other species do.
Ragitsu 3 months ago
shit humans are worse than Klingons on a good day with our stomach full
johnmrrs 3 months ago 2
screw the hu-mans!
EdMan2012 4 months ago
Good writing Not bad acting.
imagineers101 4 months ago
@imagineers101
DS9 in a sentende :)
shurednichso 4 months ago
They should wear different kinds of stylish hats.
imagineers101 4 months ago
I always fond it funny that all the alien races behaved more human then humans from the federation.
amarieoflothlorien 5 months ago
@amarieoflothlorien Alien races often behaved "more human" because alien races were always created using some single exaggerated aspect of humanity (Ferengi greed, Romulan paranoia, Klingon violence...), whilst humanity in Star Trek had "evolved" into something better.
SpazzyMcGee1337 4 months ago
Anyone who ever thought otherwise about humans needs to look up our history.
Meshakhad 5 months ago
Quark is telling the truth. At first I didn't like DS9 but I watched it again and I fell in love with it. It showed how humanity would really react if everything were lost. DS9 is a crown jewel in all of Star Trek.
smcneal057 5 months ago 2
This is why DS9 is the best Trek. It treats the "improved humanity" of Trek like it should be treated, as a result of social and cultural factors. Remove those environmental factors, and you remove all the benefits humans gain from them. Other Treks, especially early TNG, have a habit of treating future humans as if their morality and ethics are innate, like they evolved some new structure in their brain that makes them better than us "primitive" 21st century humans.
KingOfMadCows 6 months ago 4
@KingOfMadCows Good observation. Look at TNG's "The Neutral Zone" for the worst example - they defrost humans from the 20th century and Picard treats them like sub-humans, as if they were intrinsically less moral or something. But TOS was the most honest exploration of human nature in my book, with Kirk recognising that human beings were still "half savage" and they had an inherent streak of violence.
jimbopumbapigsticks 5 months ago
Quark is a smart ferengi
roush26 6 months ago
this is one of my favorite DS9 episodes.
dx11101 6 months ago
ABSOLUTELY TRUE AND CORRECT!!!!!!! its probably amognst the top ten most true statements i have ever heard! what would happen if our lights and entertainment went out along with basic food and water cut off??take our lazy tech away,and endanger our lives in a survival situation??no heat.no cold. no possesions? HA! one determined,young,healhy,and reasonably intelligent human would take out dozens of klingons at a time,without them ever seeing us!forget the fun of the match,they are in the way!
irishbreakfast 6 months ago 2
Scenes like this, episodes like this, are the reason why DS9 is my favorite Star Trek.
Kev95682 6 months ago
Quarks best scene and one of the best episodes...
svenktown 7 months ago
Damn!! That's the truth. Quark nailed it
cmealy2011 7 months ago 2
This was one of Quarks best scenes in this series. Almost always Quark is played for laughs. But here, there's nothing to laugh about. He's in trouble and he knows it.
sunnchilde 7 months ago
The same could be said about any species not just humans.
cnex1 8 months ago 4
@cnex1
That is anything looking to survive.
papermermaid 7 months ago
Wooo! Humans rule! In your face Stegosaurus!
mustang6172 11 months ago
@mustang6172
I never laughed so hard in the many years i have surfed the net. LMAO Kudos
clergame 8 months ago
So he's saying that humans are just as violent as them?
idiotrun1997 11 months ago
I loved DS9. The earlier Treks were about establishing human ideals. This Trek was about putting those ideals to the fire and seeing how well they held up.
outsideredge 11 months ago 110
@outsideredge bravo!
Uejji 11 months ago
@outsideredge And Voyager was about taking everything those previous series did and took a giant dump on them and Enterprise was the writers of that series giving a giant "F8ck you!" to anyone who dared enjoy the franchise before that. Voyager SHOULD HAVE been taking the darkness of the DS9 to the next level by setting the civilized Starfleet ship all alone in unknown space that was more like the Wild West and less like what it was and Enterprise should have been about the Earth-Romulan War.
AllTerroristsMustDie 6 months ago 3
@AllTerroristsMustDie I could not agree with you more sir
freshman05shs 6 months ago
@AllTerroristsMustDie I do agree with you about Voyager, especially Jane Way such a terrible actress. But, as for Enterprise, the last episodes, such as when they dealt with the Tholians, were pretty clever.
andmaketherain 6 months ago
@AllTerroristsMustDie
Voyager was - by far closest to TOS than any other ST installment. And I think that you haven't seen VOY, as it had precisely what you are writing about.
AnteyPL 5 months ago
@outsideredge Actually this, and all the Post-Roddenberry Treks, were about Berman squeezing as much money out of the franchise as possible. By abandoning the strict ideals Gene had created-relying on sex, mysticism, pointless drama, and cheap thrills.
TheDarkIllumination 5 months ago
@TheDarkIllumination Yes, exactly.
mrjjking77 5 months ago
@outsideredge It was more an attempt to make Trek still seem relevant past its prime. They thought it made the show challenging and deep to have human characters routinely abandoning the principles the Federation was built on.
mrjjking77 5 months ago
@outsideredge Don't you mean "Hew-Mons"? lol
GeneralKenobiSIYE 3 months ago
I loved DS9 they had a lot more scenes like this then any of the others laying down some real truth
mattsmt20 1 year ago 2
One of the best episodes ever...regardless of any show.
jebussaves1 1 year ago
Quark of all people should know that it applies to everyone, not just humans. He was around Bajor during the Cardassian occupation, and being exposed to such injustice and oppression turned the Bajorians into fierce people.
Skylinesandsunsets 1 year ago 10
So true, Quark. So true...
ambiancesb 1 year ago
Great. Thanks for the the post. AR-558 was the best episode of any Star Trek...ever!
rankcon 1 year ago
I love the Ferenghi parts, especially Quark
krisz1085 1 year ago
With out a dought the best saying of humans in star trek. Plus the only time Ground ponders come up so closely viewed in star trek as star trek likes too hide this bloody side.
starknight97 1 year ago
one of my favourite scenes from DS9
amezzeray2 1 year ago
Although quark is the comic relief...he does occassionally come up with some very good points about humans.
dvarblo 1 year ago 82
@dvarblo Quark's a people person, he knows how to read his customers very well.
BlueCrystalGem 2 months ago