Re: Pro Choice Propaganda

[daisyfuck]

hahahahah

[theboybiggles]

giving birth does not 'destroy your body and your life'.

however It does destroy the life of the baby.

[SonyaNatalia]

Anyway, when its a man who has to destroy their body and their life to have a baby (or baby after baby after baby after baby), maybe more people might start understanding why women want abortion as an option.

And India and China are already seriously overpopulating this world. If we go on having babies at this rate there won't be a world left to live in.

[theboybiggles]

'Its' is the possessive of 'it'

Sonya, we're talking about abortion, not grammar... aren't we?

[SonyaNatalia]

I hate it when men make out that abortion is so black and white. I know twelve year old rape victims who have fallen pregnant. Young pregnancy is EXTREMELY dangerous to a girl's life. How come the girl/woman never counts in your 'reasoning'?!

Nobody should be forced to have their rapist's baby.

[sweetstinglover]

@SonyaNatalia

that example counts for 4 per cent, so, whats with the 96 per cent who don't have the common sense for birth control, condoms, the pill or to use both? its a bit of a sad excuse for abortion to still exist for these types of peeps who don't have a clue of the risks.

[SonyaNatalia]

'Thank you' is two words. I have trouble taking someone seriously when their English is shocking.

That first baby is like something from a horror movie.

[leiapeison]

embryos are not babies. they are not pro life. they arnt pro anything for they have no life experience to know to want anything. how the heck do you know they would choose to live? ive met people who regret being born. in the first two months of pregnancy it is no bigger than a kidney bean. those prolife videos of late term abortions are simply emotional manipulation. women are not incubators. they are autonomous selves unlike an embryo. if i have to push it out of my vagina, i get a say.

[geofreyr]

Didn't you read Dr Seuss books as a kid? "A person's a person, no matter how small"; So what if it's the size of a kidney bean, what relevance is that? It's still a human organism and you think killing it is okay and that's atrocious.

[leiapeison]

are you aware that dr seuss has gone on record stating that he does not approve of prolifers using his words for their cause? i dont think abortion is good but it is the woman's choice as she is the one who has to experience the pregnancy and birth and the inevitable problems it entails. no one can force childbirth upon me or any other woman.

[geofreyr]

No. But it's quite normal for published material to always be quoted in various contexts and in this instance, arguably, both the phrase and the allegory in the story accurately describe the reality of gestation and the pro-life position. Perhaps the Author didn't intend this but that is another matter.

Choice shouldn't surpass the right to life of the unborn any more than a murderer's right to choose to take your life away from you.

[leiapeison]

the right to physical integrity and mental well being is just as important and inalianable as the right to life. i have a friend that got pregnant from rape. it would have been nothing short of torture to force her to carry his seed inside of her and then to be forced through the trauma of birth. the woman is a life too. many women would rather be dead than be forced to carry a rapists child. i refuse to be a potential rent a womb for anyone.

[geofreyr]

Rape is a unique situation and I appreciate the severe trauma and in such a case I see your point but I'd rather not comment further.Though I agree with you that one's right to physical integrity and mental well-being are important,I don't agree that they are as important and inalienable as the right to life.The greatest harm I can do to you is murder you not beat you.That is why all reasonable legal systems throughout history observe that murder is worse than physical or mental punishment.

[leiapeison]

the worst thing you can do to me is not murder me. there are things worse than death. i have not been raped but i have friends that have been. they told me they wish the rapist would have killed them, that they died the day they were raped. societies throughout history have often had rape a capital crime. it was a capital crime in the US until 1971. there is no reason in living if life becomes a curse.

[geofreyr]

There might be things we perceive as worse than murder in the corporeal world, but this is wrong.They can be at best equal;people are known to have recovered from physical or mental injury but not from murder,however this doesn't affect the fact that I think rape is worthy of capital punishment,alongside murder in some circumstances.

It is silly to believe that there is no reason for living if life becomes a curse,the statement is utterly contrary to the conventional science of medicine.

[leiapeison]

rape isnt just a mental and physical trauma. it cuts to the soul. it steals what is most precious to us. it is the worst possible violation a person can suffer. life itself is more than just physics. if one experiences life as unbearably painful, death is preferable. i would rather die than be tortured in any form. the dead cant be hurt. only the living can. i have not been violated but i have friends that have. these are their words not just mine.

[geofreyr]

I feel the greatest of compassion for anyone who has incurred so hideous a wrath as rape. The soul isn't a particularly easy concept to define, and many of those who have, refer also to some of the most unimaginable possibilities, things far worse than rape. Don't assume that death is preferable to life until you know what it's like to experience death.

[leiapeison]

i was stillborn. i had been strangled to death in the womb by my umbilical cord. the doctors had to revive me. i now have permanent brain damage as a result. trust me there ARE things worse than death!!!!

[geofreyr]

Like I said, "Don't assume that death is preferable to life until you know what it's like to experience death.". It's your assumption that death is better that I question, this assumption cannot be tested and I for one don't assume it's a better option than life. My reasoning is predicated on what the Catholic theologians have taught throughout the ages. Of course we're digressing here; the majority of abortions aren't performed in these very unique situations you describe.

[leiapeison]

its interesting that you mention that i dont know what it was like to die because i was a newborn but yet you seem to think it is such a tragedy when an early term abortion is performed. catholic theologians have nothing to do with law in a secular govt founded on seperation of church and state.

[geofreyr]

I don't understand what you're saying; if you're suggesting that an abortion is a greater tragedy that your death as a baby then i'd argue that the murder of a person is a greater tragedy than an indirect death, say by some natural cause. Separation of Church and state intended to protect an individual's right to choose to practice faith freely without state intervention. Every member of the state has the right to argue for the protection of its citizens, including theologians.

[jurrassicsparks]

prochoicenz is a well female of sorts,i checked her home page.Very leftwing,lesbian and Helen Clark lover.Need we say more.She has a foul mouth,ugly as sin and no job.She is a lesbian because she cant get a man.

[theboybiggles]

cheers Jurrassic. I don't know quite what's wrong with prochoicenz, but she is clearly bitter.

[jurrassicsparks]

she is a total nutter,we have had her screaming at us on another blog about Helen Clark.She likes to abuse but hates the abuse back,it was oh poor me on another blog.

[theboybiggles]

***Message to viewers of this video***

Excuse prochoicenz's vulgar comments. Unfortunately this sort of uncouth behaviour is only too common among some in the pro-death camp. I could delete his comments, but I think it's better we all see what sort of material he's made of.

[prochoicenz]

Delete this you dog cum sucking sack of herpes. And get this through your thick head you perverted son of Graham Caphill. I am a female and therefore I have the right to tell cunts like you and Ken fucken Orr to get the fuck out of my vagina, my womb and my ovaries. Fuck off.

[sueezee]

prochoicenz: get the fuck out of my vagina, my womb and my ovaries. Fuck off You're so right, but they want in there SOOOOOO bad! Must be a "mother" thing!

Keep up the good work for women everywhere!

[thenathana8er]

@prochoicenz You need to learn your terms for identifying gender. Cause' they lack muchly.

[MrJeg16]

@proshitter Funny, you don't have an ovary or vagina.  Just a dickless mock up of a vagina.

[prochoicenz]

Praise Jesus! Wars, guns, wife beating, child abuse, cultural genocide, ignorance, judgment, condemnation, stupidity, exploitation, slavery, greed. Praise Jesus!

[theboybiggles]

wow, that was a well thought out comment.

[prochoicenz]

Let me put it into words you can understand:

Take your bible and figurine of the holy virgin mary and shove them both up your arse you fucken cunt.

[theboybiggles]

I have not deleted any comments from this video. Of course I approve of guns - not necessarily what everybody does with them however. And yes, abortion is murder, because it is the killing of another human being.

[prochoicenz]

You deleted my comment? Now you approve of guns yet you call abortion murder? What a fucken loser.

bigboygiggles lolz

[thenathana8er]

@prochoicenz There is nothing wrong with guns. It's how we use them.

[sroHex]

Unfortunately I used up way to much time here. Was a bit engrossed lost track of time pretty easy. I used way more time than I ought to have. Been about 30 minutes since you've last replied so it's probably safe to go.

Take it easy, mind your health and love others from the bottom of your heart.

[sroHex]

Speaking of morality, there are different processes of morality that people can go through.

Particularly women, who are the ones affected most by the pregnancy, have a morality that takes into the account the situation and what is best for others.

They are examining their own morality, much like you are. You don't seem to respect these women. Who are you to say your morality is the greater one?

[theboybiggles]

Huh, 50% of Americans are pro-life are they? That didn't save the 46,000,000 little babies who were murdered throughout the World last year.

1 in 5 pregnancies ended in an abortion in New Zealand in 2007.

Abortion is just too easy and people are desperate to defend their right to make use of it, because it is so convenient *for them*

[sroHex]

Defend their right? One might say the same of pro gun guys.

Anyway, I think it's arrogant of you to say you know why people have abortions or want the right. Even I don't know that, and that's the stuff I like to study.

They aren't technically babies, and I understand that they are life, but they aren't babies that's a corruption of a term, which is dishonest no matter your intentions.

I quote an american statistic and you come back with a global statistic, which is also dishonest.

[sroHex]

because abortion rates in other cultures are rather high for various reasons.

The fact of the matter is abortions will always happen. And if you can go through it and give life to that child, wonderful.

However unwanted children undergo great suffering, families go into poverty and crime rates go up.

Society's health as a whole is improved by legalized abortion. I don't feel happy about that, but I believe suffering is a serious issue.

[theboybiggles]

The fact of the matter is, murder will always happen - but does this mean that we should legalise it? Of course not! It is immoral, and takes away the rights of others.

I believe suffering is a terrible thing, and serious issue. However I believe that murder is much worse.

[sroHex]

It's dawned on me that the way you're arguing with me is to take apart my one point into two and challenge one as weak and the other as unfortunate but not strong enough to warrant.

They are a package deal.

[theboybiggles]

People should have the right to carry a gun - in many/most situations.

It is obvious why people have abortions - it is almost always because having the child would be so much more inconvenient/unsafe.

They are technically babies, and under NZ (and I think US) law, they are recognised as having rights under the law.

I am not dishonest, I clearly stated that it was an international statistic.

[sroHex]

But you're using inflated statistics purposely for outrage, it's an appeal to emotions, which belittle the debate and your own argument.

If making murder legal would make things better for society it Would Be.

That's what being part of a society is. Heck if murder was actually beneficial to us, it wouldn't have been immoral. That's where morality comes from.

Crime goes down, it's safer, and there is far less suffering and a healthier more productive society.

[theboybiggles]

No. Your problem is that you have no ultimate measure of right and wrong. Murder is always wrong, I don't care what it does to help society; it is wrong.

I am not using inflated statistics.

Don't just take the easy option out mate. Abortion is murder, and it is too damn convenient.

[sroHex]

My problem? Sir that was uncalled for. Morality is not some transcendent thing. Humans develop it for purposes.

The purpose you propose creates greater suffering, and I find that immoral. and many others do because of this reason.

Morality is not absolute. Many will disagree with you and I on whether a murder is ever acceptable. In fact most people can justify a death under circumstances.

Nothing is ever wrong because it is wrong.

[sroHex]

Besides I think it's more of an easy option out to create suffering for the purpose of you not having to compromise a principle.

And using the largest possible statistic despite it being less relevant is inflated.

Being Convenient isn't a crime. If your morality is unwavering and causes more suffering than it solves then what the hell good is it for?

I've seen too much, to be told that this compassion I have is a failure of character.

[prochoicenz]

What a crap video, mine is so much better.

[illuminatedtiger]

Ken Orr can go fuck himself.

[JoshTask]

Great Video!

[dad4justice]

What a brilliant video. Well done.

[vonedel]

As I posted on the other video, I also don't agree with abortion,but I do agree in certain circumstances,the baby will be born.. physically ,or and mentally retarded/deformed, incest, or if the mothers life is at risk, if she continues the pregnancy, there are other roads a woman can take if she doesnt want a baby like adoption,

JMTCW

[theboybiggles]

Hi Vonedel, thanks for your comment.

I see what you are saying, however abortion is always wrong, because it is murder.

Now, I find this hard to say, but there will be cases where an abortion is the right choice. This would be in the rare cases where either the mother or the baby WILL definitely die, and in this case, a judgement call must be made.

Both lives are precious, and it's not for me to say who should live and who should die.

[Tamariscool]

How is abortion the right choice 'ever' if you think it's murder? You're a complete hypocrite. If a mother will die carrying a child the procedure she will get to abort the foetus is EXACTLY the same as any other abortion.

And isn't it awfully easy for you to say a rape victim or a 10 year old should carry a baby when you will never be raped and get pregnant or carry at child at 10 years old?

You can just sit back and judge because you'll never EVER be in that situation.

[pharmacopaeia]

Stop using innocent children to propogate your propaganda. Babies aren't 'pro life' any more than they are right wing or left wing.

[theboybiggles]

Excuse me, they ARE pro-life. It's a natural instinct of any human, to try to defend it's life.

[marktka]

No pharmacopaeia was correct, 'pro-life' is a moral position held by someone who has thought it through and understands all aspects of the argument. A baby can't do that. You have taken those words literally, which we know is wrong because we're talking about a specific issue here. Besides, the will to live is not a natural instinct, some people don't have it (hence suicide). The will to will, which encompasses that (where appropriate) and more is a natural instinct.

[Tamariscool]

Pharmacopaeia he has to use children to support his idealogical hate for women. Who else is he going to use?

[sroHex]

Try and defend it's life? It doesn't know what is or is not part of it's body yet.

Hitler invoked a form of christianity and asserted the superiority of the arian race and he would have remove the jews from the gene pool for the purity of blood.

But seriously, I think it's safe to say hilter did not manage to publish a peer reviewed article, and If he did it was peer reviewed so nice going Hitler.

[theboybiggles]

Hitler instigated the extermination of the Jews, among a list of people who he looked upon as undesirable. The majority of the citizens of Germany at the time looked upon what Hitler was doing as a good thing.

This is a close parallel to the situation today, with abortion. There are few who stand up for the rights of those who cannot speak. But just because they are few does not mean they are to be discounted.

(How do you know that a baby doesn't know?)

[sroHex]

We've been having babies a long time, you'd be surprised how much we've learned about them.

Besides have you Looked at a baby? They'll hit themselves and then get pissed at their own hand. And baby is Way past the fetus stage. Got bones and organs in the right places at that point.

It's not a close parallel with abortion, and you should know that it's a rule of debate that comparison to nazis or hitler is forfeiting.

There are Not few pro lifers either, you give yourself too much credit.

[theboybiggles]

You said "It doesn't know what is or is not part of it's body yet."

Yes they darn well do. Haven't you heard a little baby crying it's heart out when it feels hungry, or squashed it's finger in the cupboard door?

Anyway, arguing for abortion on the basis that the victim cannot feel pain is ridiculous.

There *are* relatively few pro-lifers.

[sroHex]

Feeling pain and knowing why are different things.

I do lament that a potential was lost, and am sympathetic to your position and I am not going to argue the fact that it feels no pain is not mentally active makes it ok.

I will argue that if you Don't allow abortions to be legal you get Illegal abortions which are More dangerous and Will happen.

As a whole legalized abortion benefits society. I wish things could be better than that, but they aren't.

[theboybiggles]

sroHex, I honestly appreciate your response (far less antagonistic than I am used to from people who disagree with my stance on abortion).

However, do you think that legalising murder would be a good thing, so as to prevent the "more dangerous" murders, where innocent bystanders might get accidentally killed?

Calling an unborn human being "a potential" may do something to ease your conscience, but who ever asks the babies how they feel about it?

[sroHex]

I did not call it a potential, rather I don't so much lament when someone dies so much as lament what was not done because they died.

To me that's much more significant and sad. I regret the loss of what could have been.

If legalizing murder, would decrease the amount of danger to people in society, and reduce crime and poverty, and save lives. I might consider it.

However, murder is a broad concept and does not apply to abortion which is done under specific rules. (As a simile that is)

[sroHex]

Oh and for some reason I didn't read the last line.

Babies don't have an inner monologue. They won't get one for Years much less before they are born. There's no possible way for the fetus to understand what's happening.

[sroHex]

And as of 2007 CNN had a poll, and 50% were pro life.

Unless CNN is somehow code for Fox, I assume that this data isn't so warped that a relative few is portrayed as the majority.

[jimbawb23]

Don't cast this as an male vs. female thing, I support the right of women to choose whether they want to go ahead or not.

The people who are against this usually claim to object on moral grounds, quoting from a book I don't regard to be fact, invoking a superior being which I have seen no sign of actually existing.

I believe in science, bitches, and it's scientific fact that an embryo is not a sentient, thinking being.

[theboybiggles]

"it's scientific fact that an embryo is not a sentient, thinking being."

Hitler claimed that he had scientific evidence that the Jews needed to be exterminated.

[Tamariscool]

So science is evil now? Because of Hitler?

[lemlim123]

In the USA in 1980s after a women from texas won a landmark decision to allow her unborn to be aborted and set a precident to allow this across many states - stopping a child to be born into poverty, crime and an environment unforgiving for a child. After this decision crime in these states 16 years on and follow dropped DRAMATICALLY while the states that do not allow the choice remain constant and climbing - steeply. Fight the real fight about education and sexual protection, not abortion

[theboybiggles]

What would your thoughts be on infanticide I wonder lemlim123. If a mother has a 5yr old for instance, who is living in an environment of poverty and crime, would it be ok for Mum to kill the child?

[metaldd666]

This is a foetus not a child. What are your thoughts on murdering women? Is that alright with you BOYbiggles? You don't really care about the women who will commit suicide out of dispair and the women who will die through child abuse. Imagine a teen who is raped. You don't care about her all you care about is the foetus that is inside her. As long as she births it it doesn't matter if she kills herself afterwards right?

It's the foetus that matters not the woman.

[theboybiggles]

No, they BOTH matter VERY much.

[Tamariscool]

But women don't matter enough for you to give them a choice about their bodies. You - as a man who will never get pregnant - are sending all women the message that they don't matter and you know what is best for them. In fact you don't even care if they die - as long as they do what you say.

[lemlim123]

Unfortunately you have not addressed the issue at all, and responding to factual evidence with an anecdote and / or a question holds no suitable rebbutal. You are taking a very narrow minded view of the picture and not allowing for the variables, suicide, murder, vicious assults etc of which after a registered 4500 abortions were recorded, murders dropped to a low of over 10,000 less following the trend. Its sad that there is a correlation I admit, but alas, this is todays make-up

[marktka]

What a ridiculous statement biggles, I almost respected you as a worthy adversary in a valid argument until you said that. That's not even close to the same thing. Come on.

[Tamariscool]

You forgot to thank him for all the women and children who will die if NZ makes abortion illegal.

[marktka]

haha nice :) good point too. bottom line to all of this and the debate in general is, mind your own damn business! whether or not someone has the right to abort is irrelevant when in the first place, you have no right to tell people what they can and can't do with their bodies. i don't have the right to comment, i'm a guy so will never be faced with that situation, therefore what i say is meaningless. i say again, mind your own damn business! that goes for the pro-choice folks too (like myself).

[theboybiggles]

I agree, "you have no right to tell people what they can and can't do with their bodies".

However when another person's body (the baby in this situation) is involved, it's not quite so simple is it?

[marktka]

OK let me rephrase that; you have no right to tell people what they can or cannot do when it is none of your business. Nobody likes people that stick their nose in other peoples affairs, yourself included I'm sure. It doesn't matter why they did so either, the fact remains you disrespected that person by interfering.

[theboybiggles]

It would be a darn sight lower than the number of dead babies though, I'll warrant you.

[metaldd666]

What babies? You're talking about foetuses that aren't viable outside the womb. You want to kill women by forcing them to have abortions at home with rusty coathangers. You're quite happy to put the lives of women at risk aren't you? It doesn't matter if they die. As long as the 'babies' that you don't want to look after 'survive'.

[theboybiggles]

Would you say the same thing about a 1-month old baby who is not "viable" unless given much care and attention by his parents?

And no, I absolutely do not want women dying from having illegal abortions done. They should go ahead with the pregnancy - and find someone to adopt the child,

or just not get pregnant in the first place

(no disrespect to victims of rape of course)

[Tamariscool]

Boy do you blame teens who are molested by their fathers for getting pregnant? Do you blame women who get pregnant when a condom breaks? A man has to be involved you know. Why is it always the woman's fault?How many adopted children do you have Boy? I hope you will be personally taking in these children being born. I also hope you'll be reimbursing the women for carrying 'your' adopted children. Your hate for women and rape victims is obvious.

[Victorina32]

This is lovely! Thank you BoyBiggles!

Vicky

[theboybiggles]

In 2007, 1 in every 5 pregnancies in New Zealand ended in an abortion. Thanks for your comment Robatrhema.

[robatrhema]

18,380 in one year! On average that's one abortion every advt. break every working day for a whole year. God have mercy!

[anklyosaur]

This is a brilliant video. Ken Orr has done well to take the Abortion Supervisory Committee to court and bring the abortion issue into the public spotlight. The committee was applying the law terribly because 99% of the 18,380 abortions last year were aproved under the mental health of the mother clause. It is blatantly obvious that 99% of these women did not have mental health issues.

Choose life!

[doggittyy]

G-ANGSTAR

How on earth has the murder of unborn been justified?

Good on ya Andy and Ken!

[prolifeinternational]

Excellent message!..New Zealand is such a wonderful country..you mustn`t let your people be brainwashed with pro abortion propaganda..We ALL have a duty to pregnant women to provide them with all the love,care, and support they need so that can NEVER feel vulnerable and find themselves at risk of becoming prey to the abortionists!