25 Plagiarized Chapters in the Book of Mormon part 1 of 2

[theyoungstud420]

So if the book of Mormon is the most correct book ever written then how is the birthplace of Jesus Christ off by 5.miles doesn't seem so correct to me

[mollymu1]

IF you are looking into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints be sure to ask a active member not a non member or someone who is having problems at this time in their lives . If you want to know about the Baptist Church go to their site . If you want to learn about us ask us. And ask yourself by the fruit you see.

[wannawatchu66]

@mollymu1 That'd be a great idea if the LDS church wasn't disingenuous about their history. In the squeaky-clean Mormon videos, you'll never see Joseph Smith's occultism, Masonic membership, or the court documentation of his 1826 conviction of "glass looking." The missionaries don't tell of Jesus and Lucifer being spirit brothers, of LDS polytheism, denial of the Trinity, or Brigham Young's teachings of Adam-God or that polygamy is necessary to attain godhood, and that's just a start.

[scottwins2]

@wannawatchu66 You offer no facts, only accuse. JOSEPH SMITH was NOT CONVICTED in the court case of Joseph Smith 1826. What about it? Are you refering to the FACT there was no testimony given? No witnesses presented in behalf of Joseph Smith? Or that there was no mention of a conviction or a sentence? Oh, excuse me you mst be refering to the $2.68 Joseph Smith was charged by the Constable for the case itself "court fees." which he paid I might ad. That court case of 1826, NO CONVICTION

[wannawatchu66]

@scottwins2 So, you don't deny that Joseph was in court over the occultic practice of "glass-looking?"

This was what we might call a "pre-trial hearing," not a full-blown trial, that would've resulted in a later full trial had Smith not taken what's been called "leg bail" (Smith fled the area).

Whether anyone likes it or not, Smith was actively involved in occultic activities and ran afoul of the law in the process. Instead of getting mad at me, why not check it out for yourself?

[wannawatchu66]

@scottwins2 But since you mentioned facts, here are a few:

LDS teaches that Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers

LDS is polytheistic

The Triune God is denied by Mormonism

LDS teaches that God the Father has a tangible body of flesh and bones

LDS can become gods themselves

LDS denies Jesus' virgin birth

LDS teaches that Jesus is one god among many

Joseph Smith didn't know a thing about hermeneutics

Joseph Smith, as carterfamily demonstrates, tampered w/the Bible

[moparmonster1965]

@scottwins2 You're right here, the resolution of the case is unclear at present. There are plenty of other problems facing Mormonism's early days, such as Smith's wildly varying versions of the Furst Vision, false prophecies, and chronological problems with his claims of having recived the fictional Melchizadek priesthood.

We do know that Smith was playing with peep stones before any mention of angels or gold plates, and do know that he stole one from a neighbor.

[scottwins2]

@moparmonster1965 There is no case to solve on Manuscript found nothing to resolve. Joseph Smiths first vision was written down on 5 different occasions, just as you would tell different friends of a trip you may have taken the stroy may differ somewhat. No false prophecies, besides a prophesy is defined differently in the LDS faith than others. Priesthood is real. Pepe stones were ficticious stories of the mob. NO stealing gold plates from a neighbor. Sorry, and again no facts in the matter.

[wannawatchu66]

@scottwins2 About these priesthoods, Scott, since you claim the LDS "priesthood is real." Have any idea what the criteria were to be an Aaronic Priest? 1. Had to be a Jew, 2. Of the tribe of Levi, 3. A direct descendant of Aaron. Read Numbers 16 for the story of Korah, Dathan and Abiram, their rebellion against Moses, and how God made the ground open up and swallow them. Korah *was* a Levite, but not a descendant of Aaron.

Still wanna pretend to be an Aaronic Priest?

[moparmonster1965]

The priesthood has been fulfilled and was available only to direct blood relatives of Aaron; my guess is that you don't have too many Cohens in your congregation, do you?

The peepstones were quite real, I'm afraid, and Smith's family used them for years. There's no fiction here.

I didn't say anything about Smith having stolen plates, but rather a stone he found while helping a neighbor dig a well. He rpomised to return it and then reneged. That's called theft.

[moparmonster1965]

No, when I recount a story of something that I did or that happened to me, I have never such glaring inconsistancies in each retelling, so you can't use that as an escape hatch.

Yes, the LDS prophesies are differently from those we find in the Bible because the Mormon standard is very low so as to allow these to be considered accurate or at least only partially fulfilled.

[moparmonster1965]

To dismiss these inconsistancies is folly because a man who cannot get accurate the details of the single most important religious experience in all of mankind's existance can't be trusted.

[moparmonster1965]

Where I come from, this is called lying because if the man you count on to restore the church that the Mormon god so carelessly walked away from some 1,900 years earlier couldn't get his story straight, what was he correct about? If you look at each and every account, there's only one consistant thing, and that's the grove itself. My favorite version is the one where he speaks to the 'Jewish minister named Joshua.' In that one, he claimed to have seen only angels.

[moparmonster1965]

The story of the Furst Vision evolved over the span of 20 years, offering eight slightly differing versions of it over the years. In one, he saw 'the Lord' and a pillar of light, in another two unnamed personages and a pillar of fire, sometimes there were angels and somsrimes there weren't, and he was given different messages, depending on the version, too. In some he was told that his sins were forgiven and in other that all churches were corrupt.

[moparmonster1965]

@scottwins2 What you meant to say is that you don't have all the facts and therefore don't yet see a problem. Keep an open mind and you'll learn that the church has been lying to you for a long time.

[moparmonster1965]

And in 1906, Joseph F. Smith was charged and plead guilty to breaking Utah's anti-polygamy laws. A man not practicing polygamy wouldn't do that, would he? But it doesn't even stop there because apostle John Taylor was excommunicated in 1911 for polygamy, 21 years after the Manifesto.

What I like to ask Mormons is that if the rules laid out by the Mormon god don't apply to the leadership of his one true church on earth, who do they apply to?

[moparmonster1965]

The church leadership continued to practice it, proven by the fact that then-prophet Joseph F. Smith fathered 11 children within polygamy after the 1890 Manifesto. Called to testify before the Reed Smoot congressional hearings, he issued the Second Manifesto, which wouldn't have been necessary had the church been obeying the laws of the land they way they claimed.

[moparmonster1965]

@wannawatchu66 Agreed; the church has been polishing its history since being forced to give up the ban on blacks holding the priesthood in 1978. And clearly, it's worked to some extent.

One of my favorite parts of Mormonism problems is polygamy because it's easy to see how the leadership lied about it consistantly over the years.

[scottwins2]

@mollymu1 Yes and go to lds.org a great site.

[moparmonster1965]

@mollymu1 The problem, Molly, is that if an active member doesn't have the full story, they can't give the full story to anyone else, can they? If Mormons have been lied to, then they will only repeat those lies to people who come asking questions.

[wannawatchu66]

Let's just suppose for a moment that Nephi really existed, and 2 Nephi really WAS written "between 559 and 545 BC." What I don't get is WHY this Nephi had to write what Isaiah ALREADY WROTE, plagiarism or not. You don't find whole chapters of, say, Deuteronomy in Daniel, or whole chapters of Job in Malachi.

Why would God inspire Nephi to write THE SAME THING AGAIN, even the ITALICIZED words (which didn't exist until the KJV).

Who's REALLY kicking against the pricks here, gusanastro?

[plunderpunk]

@wannawatchu66 I found this to be troubling, too. What point would God be making to repeat, verbatim, what he'd already had others say hundreds of years before? Why is this a necessary

aspect of his supposed new testament?

[gusanastro]

Amazingly, the dead sea scrolls have more similarity to the Book of Mormon rendition of Isaiah than the bible. Keep kicking against the pricks.

[IExposeMormonism]

@gusanastro Pitiful. Do elaborate

[gusanastro]

@IExposeMormonism I would, except swine doesn't appreciate it. Keep kicking against the pricks.

[chainsticks88]

@goodbyebeard The mormons are full of LIES,DECEIT and TRICKERY and it was from that jealous ape joseph smith the prophet of satan who wanted to use Jesus Christ name as a ploy to try and lure Gods children away from him and to join satan and his mormon children

[lunabranwen]

there is no solid evidence to support the BOM,

[rangerbob1967]

Every so often we hear of some one recording a hit song, then some one else steps forward and says the hit is based on the rhythm of another hit song and therefore the composer of the first song should be compensated. Was this intentional? sometimes. If one was steeped in the Bible like they were then, alas we're not now. As Joseph translated, the words of the Bible could come through easily. especially if the text was very close. Does this mean he is a fake or does it mean he is.......a human?

[carterfamily8903]

@rangerbob1967 When He starts identifying the egyptian godesses Isis and Maat as King Pharaoh and prince of Pharaoh on page 41 of his pearl of great price, and identifies the egyptian god Osiris as Abraham sitting on Pharaohs throne, fake, fraud, false prophet, servant of the devil, all of these come to mind. The BOM was supposedly "translated " from reformed egyptian texts supposed to have been written hundreds of years before the KJV Bible.

[Outlaw1257]

@rangerbob1967 If SmYth "translated" these plates, then his translation would be in accordance to what was revealed through the plates. the problem is that SmYth "translated' these plates in the form of Elizabethan English, which considering the time frames. is inconsistent with the era in which these "plates" were supposedly written. furthermore, if you've ever cross referenced the writings of Soloman Spaulding, SmYth's plagiary becomes clearer.

[plunderpunk]

@Outlaw1257 It's SMITH, not SMYTH. Oh wait.... I get it!

[CounterCultureLives]

@rangerbob1967 The fact that SmYth "translated" The Book of Mormon from a nonexistent language called "Reformed Egyptian", to English of The Elizabethan period underscores the fallacies of SmYth's works. There is no credible explanation why the so-called "hieroglyphics" would "translate" into Elizabethan English.

[moparmonster1965]

This can only mean that the author of the BOM had a copy of the KJV and was familiar with it, but was subject to making mistakes. Since Jesus is perfect, He couldn't have made the mistake, and it makes more sense that since we already know Joseph Smith to have owed a KJV and claimed to have studied it for 12 years before the BOM was first published, the mistake was Smith's. This one point undercuts all of Smith's claims about the BOM.

[moparmonster1965]

Does that make sense to you? Me neither, but it gets even more difficult to explain when we see that Acts 3:22 is Peter's paraphrase of Moses' words in Deut. 18:15, but the Mormon jesus attributes those words to Moses instead.

[moparmonster1965]

In 3 Nephi 20:23, we find the exact same wording of Acts 3:22, and according to apostle Russel M. Nelson and David Whitmer (who helped in some of the 'translation'), the BOM is either a word-for-word or character-for-character translation. If that's the case, we have a serious problem because it can only mean that the fictional Nephites somehow conjured up the words found in a book not yet written by men not yet born in an idiom not yet evolved on a continent thousands of miles away.

[lunabranwen]

the book of mormon speaks of great battles through out N. America. involving horses, that did not exist here at that time period. and thousands of chariots that not even one artifact has ever been found. there is no record of any so called Nephite. the BOM is nothing but pure fiction.

[jwnaugle]

@lunabranwen actually theres some pretty striking evidences for the book of mormon,

[carterfamily8903]

@jwnaugle If you carefully look at the Book of Mormon there is no evidence for anything that it says, that is not a direct plagiarism from the Bible. There is no shred of evidence that there ever was a Nephite, a Jarediate or a Lamanite, and we know for sure that the indians in America are definitely not of Jewish descent. The BOM presents a different gospel of salvation that comes after all we can do, which directly contradicts everything the New Testament teaches about salvation.

[KenDyerJr]

@carterfamily8903 Excuse me but there is NO SHRED of evidence that JESUS ever existed. If there is SHOW IT TO ME, sir.

[whodidyouexpect]

@KenDyerJr Really? Check out these first:

1) The Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a

2) Tacitus, Annals 15.44

3) Josephus, Antiquities 18:63-64

4) Josephus, Antiquities 20:9.1

5) Lucian, The Passing of Peregrinus

6) Pliny, Letters 10.96-97

[chainsticks88]

@jwnaugle The book of mormon is nothing but vile evil blasphemy by an asshole like joseph smith who was jealous of Jesus Christ and thats why he claimed he was better then Christ and YES HE DID.. the book of mormon talks of a mormon jesus and doesnt even accknowledge the REAL Jesus Christ, it mocks the real Jesus, joseph smith among other mormon prophets from satan are rotting in hell

[jwnaugle]

@chainsticks88 Wo, careful with words man. I don't want to spend my time with a Hater so peace and good luck to ya.

[chainsticks88]

@jwnaugle Um hmm as I said joseph smith is a piece of pig shit because he blasphemized Jesus Christ. I am proud to hate anything thats of satan and that means mormonism

[KenDyerJr]

@chainsticks88 JEsus Christ is a myth, there is no evidence for Jesus.

[carterfamily8903]

@goodbyebeard The trouble is the KJV Bible was not translated into english until 1611. The BOM was supposedly written 100s of years before that in "{reformed egyptian" a make believe language. Compare Isaiah in the KJV Bible the NASB Bible & some of the other translations, & you will find that the BOM only matches word for word with the KJV Bible translation. Hebrew has very few words that are directly saying what an english word is saying. There are many correct ways to translate into english.

[carterfamily8903]

@goodbyebeard Well with all of the changes and cutting down, "The Dead Sea Scrolls" contained a complete copy of the book of Isaiah that is nearly word for word identical to the manuscripts used to translate Isaiah in 1611 in the KJV Bible. This manuscript from the Dead Sea Scrolls predates Christ by about 400 years. As truly educated people do know. The thousands of manuscripts we have for the Bible shows nearly no change at all over thousands of years.

[joeyslaptop]

I will never claim that Joseph Smith was perfect throughout his life - only Jesus could accomplish that. But Joseph Smith's life was dedicated to testifying that Jesus is the one and only Christ. I will claim that Joseph Smith was not only a true prophet, but one of the greatest ones to ever live.

Joseph had a gift to translate that was largely developed during his process of translating the Book of Mormon. He applied that gift in various capacities, and blessed the lives of millions.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop Joseph Smith led people away from the only Way to heaven, Who is the real historical Jesus Christ John 14:6. He led them after false gods who are nothing more than "exalted men" promising his followers like Satan did, in Genesis 3:5 that they would become like gods. The Bible is explicit from cover to cover that there is only one God, and He is not an exalted man. Jesus Christ was God Who entered into human flesh, He was God first, not a man John 1:1-3,14.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 If you follow God's laws, you get the associated rewards in Heaven. What happens when you become perfectly obedient to all of God's laws? What happens when you do everything your parents tell you to do and you follow their example - you become just like your parents. It's the "you are what you eat" philosophy. God gave us Christ not just to provide a sacrifice, but to provide an example of how to be more like God. See St. John 8:12 & 14:6. All is possible through His power.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop What happens to a mass murderer who stops murdering people, or a their who stops stealing, or a liar who stops lying? They remain a murderer, a liar, or a theif, their sins do not disappear, because they stopped. Jesus said to hate someone is to murder them in our heart. To lust after someone is to commit adultery in our heart. The wages of sin is death, eternal separation from God in Hell. The GIFT of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ, who died for our sins.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 For many people healed by Jesus, they had to go wash themselves in the river several times to be healed - not just orally profess faith in Christ. The Bible says that faith without works is dead. You profess your faith by your words, and I will show mine in deed. Another wise person once said, "Your words mean little when your actions are screaming so loudly." Jesus did die for our sins, but we should take action to show that we accept that sacrifice, and must act in faith.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop Faith without works is certainly dead, and faith in our works is far more dead. Pride goes before a fall, and Jesus said the poor in Spirit would inherit the kingdom of Heaven. If we are working for salvation, then we are expecting it as a debt owed to us for our works. If we accept salvation, the only way that God has made it available to us. By grace through faith, our pride must go, because we must come to the realization that we deserve Hell, but God by grace, gives us Heaven.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 Lol One God? And who is that one God talking to when He says, "Let there be light" and "let US go down and create man in OUR image. Clearly in Genesis, there is a speaker and a doer (even as it was spoken). The translation into English reads "God", but the original text uses the plural (as in a council of the gods). The word "god" was used to describe spirits both good and bad. Thank goodness, there is one of them recognized as the head or chief God - who is the Father.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop Elohim, the Hebrew plural word for God is used over and over again, the words used around that name, when referring to God, force this plural word to be understood as a singular. 1 John 5:7 says there are three who ARE ONE. John 1:1-3,14 says that Jesus was God, He was with God, but He was God. When God entered into human flesh in the person of Jesus Christ, He did not become an atheist human, who did not believe in Himself. Jesus declared God is Spirit in John 4:24.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 They are one in purpose. The translation would be the "Head of The Gods" or "Chief God" rather than "the God". Jesus not only prayed to the Father, but also worshipped Him, learned from Him, and was separated from Him in order to complete the atonement. John 16:26-28, 3 Nephi 13:18, Matt 3:17, Luke 22:42. Justice says that we can't be in God's presence. Mercy requires an intermediary (a person who is worthy to be in God's presence and who can dwell among us). An atonement.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop You obviously know nothing of Hebrew. There is no proper translation from Hebrew that says the "Head of the Gods". God says in Isaiah 43:10 that there was no God formed before Him, and there would never be a God formed after Him. In Isaiah 44:6-8 God declares that He does not know of any God besides Himself. Do you believe that God is a liar? Or was Joseph Smith a liar? One of them certainly was.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 Eloah is the singular form. It has been used even in the OT to describe divine spirits or even pagan Gods as well. Elohim is plural. El denotes chief or head. Bene Elohim refers to the sons of the head god (or the council). The translation of that into a singular didn't happen until the Greek translation. If you believe in the updated translation, then you believe in prophesy after the word was written. Unlike you, I don't have to ignore Genesis in order to be correct.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop Mormonism totally ignores & contradicts the very 1st verse of Genesis. Which says, In the beginning God created the heaven & the earth. Mormonism teaches in the beginning everything, & everyone existed, & a whole group of beings assembled 2 build the earth, out of preexisting matter.there is like 326 million trillion gallons of water on earth, there is much more dry material on earth, than liquid, if you had trillions of people moving matter, they would have millions of pounds each.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 Yet, it's all so light that one ghost could lift it all? Again, if one ghost could lift it, then certainly many ghosts could.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop How many people move a hurricane, or a tornado? God spoke, and physical things began to exist. The earth is a very tiny planet. There are stars that are millions of times bigger than the earth. God created every single star, planet, etc. in six days, and He was not rushing, He deliberately took time. He could have created it all in a split second. John 1:3 teaches that Jesus made everything that exists. So does Colossians 1:16,17. etc.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 Do I really need to know more Hebrew here? Jesus claimed to be the "... way, the truth, and the life:" and then in the same sentence says, "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." There are no other Gods except the Father, but nobody gets to the Father without Christ. You deny the existence of multiple Gods or multiple manifestations of one great power (ie Godhead), and also claim that Jesus exists as Himself and as God The Father at the same time as two beings. 3 Ne 11:36

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop Jesus said if you have seen me, you have seen the Father. He was not lying. He said the Father and I are one. God is not a man, God is Spirit John 4:24. Jesus was God in human flesh, God is a trinity, just like man is a trinity as well. We are made of body, soul, and spirit. Our body, is not our sour, and our spirit is not our Body or our soul, yet body, soul and spirit, make us who we are. Mormonism contradicts Jesus, and says no man comes to the Father, but through Mormonism.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 The oneness that the Father and the Son experience are oneness in purpose, desire, and council. Christ submitted His will to His father in the garden, saying, "Nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." This was an essential statement made by Christ in order to acknowledge His earthly and mortal will, and whole-heartedly putting it aside to do as God commanded.

Mormonism is important because of what it teaches about Christ, and because it possesses Christ's authority.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop God is an Omnipresent Spirit Being. He is fully present all places & times at the same time. If He were not, prayers would be vain & foolish. God knows our thoughts before we even think them. Within the Omnipresent Spirit Being of God, there are three persons, the Father, Who is Spirit, The Son, Who is Spirit, but also entered into human flesh, and The Holy Spirit, Who is Spirit. Flesh hinders, it does not help a Spirit being. Flesh must be fed, clothed, have oxygen etc. or it dies.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 God's influence can be observed in everything. That doesn't mean that God is an omnipresent feeling. I am in WA, yet I can answer your questions from here. You can sense my presence and my words have an effect on you (otherwise you wouldn't type back). Yet, I am not an omnipresent spirit. I am a man. If I can do things like this, then God certainly can too without being an everywhere at once spirit. You are more than a spirit, you are an entire soul. God is an eternal soul.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop God is not a feeling He is a very real Spirit Being, who knows everything about everything. Read Psalm 139 very carefully. Why would U pray to a feeling, who cannot hear U? Mormon scriptures claim Omnipresence even 4 the Mormon gods, but a god trapped in a body certainly cannot be omnipresent. Mormon scriptures also claim Omnipotence 4 all of the Mormon gods. But the word itself makes this an impossibility. To be Omnipotent, is 2 be absolutely unchallengable, by anyone or any thing.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 I think He's more than just a spirit.  I think that He is the Father of us all and that, as His children, we resemble Him. Apple seeds grow to be apple trees, and we will grow to resemble our Father.

What you misunderstand is the same that Lucifer misunderstood - in order to become like God, you have to learn to follow His rules. In other words, when we obey God's laws, we share/experience His glory; but, it's impossible to take God's glory from Him. We will never BE Him.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop Jesus said talking to some very religious Jews: You are of your father the devil. No person, is by nature a child of God. We are His creations. We did not even exist, and He created us, body, soul, and spirit. God has always been God, and has never been some human that progressed to be a God. God created from nothing, humans, every type of animal and plant, and all that exists. No animal, plant, human, seed etc. existed, until God created them.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 When people become gods, they do not become God or take His place or glory in Heaven.  We are forever at His mercy - only learning and partaking in what He provides. The highest calling we can have in the eternities is to become a god like Him.

Our works count. Good works produce good results. We learn, grow, and develop as we serve God. We can become perfect - even as Christ commanded us. Without Christ, all our good works are in vane, meaningless, and can't save us.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop When people become gods, it is only in their imagination, and they are replacing the real God with themselves. God is not a human, and is infinitely beyond anything that any human ever will be. God is infinitely knowledgeable, present, and powerful. We are extremely finitely limited in knowledge, presence and power, and will forever be. No person has ever, or will ever make God to big. We always make ourselves, way bigger than we are, and God way smaller than He is.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 I think you belittle Him by calling Him a mere spirit. I myself am a spirit and a body together. After the resurrection, we'll all have immortal and perfected bodies and a spirit. That's right out of the Bible. Satan was punished by being denied a body. Also see Mark 5. If it was punishment for Satan and his demons to be denied a body, why would it be a glory for God? The only spirit people are either pre-mortal or are dead people awaiting the resurrection. See John 1:14

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop Was Jesus belittling God, when He declared John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."? Read Philippians 2:5-11 Jesus did not take some great step upward, to become a man, He took a massive plunge downward, leaving His majesty, glory, and emptying Himself of power to become a puny man. The very first form of isolatry listed in Romans chapter 1, is people changing the uncorruptible and uncreated God, into a created corruptible man.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 Wow... that was a twist (or a false claim) of my words. I never said that Christ is currently mortal or that death is a holier existence. He passed from a state that was potentially eternal to a state that was absolutely temporary. He died, surely not because of His own sins, but because Adam brought death to the world. Jesus never fell and always remained worthy of His position. By the power that came from submission to His perfection, He resurrected. One day, we will too.

[joeyslaptop]

@joeyslaptop In other words, it's a more advanced state in progression from existing as spirit beings to resurrected beings. Even with bodies that die, we are still further along than the demons who will ever have bodies. Having a body is a more advanced state of existence. Having a resurrected body is the end goal. Jesus is a perfect example, not just of following the law, but also of our physical progress. We will all grow to be more like our Father in Heaven - and Jesus.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop Mormonism directly contradicts the Bible, with their ideas of progression. God says in the Bible that He does not ever change. Never has, and never will. If He were getting smarter, or progressing, or ever had done so, He could not be God. Demons possess bodies all through the Bible. The Bible says that Satan makes himself appear as an angel of light. I certainly believe the Bible clearly indicates that Satan has a body, and can change his appearance, as well as the other angels.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop I did not mean to twist any of your words, if I did, I'm sorry. The Bible I believe indicates that Christ does even currently have a body, but He is not limited to His body, or contained in any way, shape or form, in His body. Christ passed from a state that was absolutely eternal, into a physical body, that according to His claim in John 10:18 did not have to die, and could never die, until He determined to lay it down. Then when He did lay it down, He took it back again.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 John 10:18 is talking about Christ's role requiring His agency to be submitted completely to His Father. He chose to die for us.

If He hadn't willfully given up His life, He couldn't have even saved Himself and would have ceased to be a god in the flesh. He would have ceased to be perfect by virtue of breaking His commandment from God. Mankind would have been lost, and even Christ would have been subject to Satan's power. There would be no resurrection, only eternal death.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop Jesus most certainly did not need to save Himself. He lived a perfect life, the life God wanted us to live. He did not need to die at all for Himself. The ONLY REASON He laid down His life, was to save us. Satan is in no way shape or form anything like an equal to God. What tiny little bit of power Satan has, is allowed and given him by God. When Satans time is up, there will be no fight with God. He will immediately be cast into the lake of fire.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 If He had not sacrificed His life, He would have been violating a direct commandment from God. He didn't need a baptism either (He had no sins). But He did it to fulfill all righteousness. In other words, He would have ceased to be without sin.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop There was absolutely NO obligation at all, for Christ to die for our sins. Christ is God, and He would have been perfectly justified, righteous, Holy, etc. to allow us to go to Hell, which is what our sins earn and deserve. His unfathomable Grace, caused Him to do what He did. Not out of any type of necessity for Himself, but because we were without hope, without Him. Eternal existence, contrary to Mormon teachings, was never in question, only where it would be spent.

[joeyslaptop]

Proxy, by the way, means "authorized in place of someone else". Proxy sealings (marriages) & baptisms are done by living members in behalf of the dead. The dead have the ability to accept or reject the baptism or sealing done in their behalf. When the doctrine was first revealed to LDSs, they assumed that everyone had to be linked through the direct patriarchal lineage of Joseph. Later revelation further clarified the doctrine. We begin to see the need for modern revelation and prophets.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop baptism for the dead is mentioned one time in the entire Bible, by Paul, who explicitly excludes himself from those who are doing this. It is nowhere to be found in the Book of Mormon, which supposedly contained the fulness of the gospel. Eternal marriage is certainly not taught in the Bible or the Book of Mormon at all, and Jesus said there is no marriage in heaven in Matthew 22:23-32. The prophets ended with Jesus Christ Hebrews 1:1,2.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 If Christ is eternal, then so is His priesthood authority. Prophets started with Adam and have always been needed throughout history. They all had writings of previous prophets - and yet needed more. The Marriage scripture to which you refer talks about marriages taking place specifically after the resurrection and judgment. Righteous people who aren't married by that time will be angels in Heaven. Read the parable of the 10 Virgins in Matt 25 (and parable of the talents).

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop Christ, is the only 1 who is eternal, He said before Abraham was, I AM. Abraham was born nearly 2000 years, before Jesus Christ was born. Jesus was not asked about people getting married in heaven, He was asked which of the men would this woman who was married to 7 men, be married to. His answer was none of them. There is no marriage in Heaven. God does not need human rituals on earth, to change things in Heaven. God is not a man, & certainly has never been, nor will ever B married.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 That's funny. I was going to use the same story to make my point. You are misquoting scripture to make your point. Read vs 29-30.  It says, "For in the resurrection..." not "For in Heaven..."

Do you believe in Jesus? He was born to an earthly mother and was mortal. He certainly was a man (at least half man/half God who had the ability to die). Now He is a resurrected man - by His own power. If not, what kind of example (Luke 1:79) would He be for us?

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop Well with ZERO verses in the Book of Mormon even, or the Bible that teach there is marriage in heaven, eternal marriage is a false dream of a false prophet. Jesus was 100% human, & 100% God. God did not have sex with Mary 4 her to conceive Jesus, The Holy Spirit worked a miracle in her body, with no sex involved and Mary was still a virgin at the time she gave birth to Jesus. Jesus declared that no man could take His life, He said that He had power to lay it down & 2 take it again.

[joeyslaptop]

@carterfamily8903 Wow, if He did, I certainly wouldn't treat it with the lack of reverence that you do. I'll let God decide how He made that happen.

As far as eternal marriage, God made a helpmeet for Adam before the Fall. What was that all about? Is God not eternal? Did God introduce death, decay, and a marriage that would end? Why was man not to be alone? Marriages can be eternal (just like a baptism binds you to Christ forever) when sealed by Christ's power and authority.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop God designed a special relationship between man and woman,

God is eternal yes. Sin and rebellion against God, introduced death and decay. Our relationship with God is of far more importance than any relationships we have on earth. Our spouses can be very special to us, but they can become idols also. God is to come even before husband and wife. Baptism only gets a person wet. If a person has been born again, or saved, baptism is a testimony to the world of what God has done 4 us.

[joeyslaptop]

Isaiah lived 800 BC. His writings were available to not just Nephi, but all Israelites capable of reading. Try actually reading the book in context and with proper perspective. Polygamy was engaged in for many reasons, some were full marriages, some were strictly for temple blessings of sealing, and some were to sponsor divorced/widowed women and their children (like adoption). Also even Nephi sources his quotes in the Book of Mormon - so, no plagiarism there. You are not a translator.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop Joseph was not a translator either, even if he was, he claimed 2 B translating from reformed egyptian 2 english. The King James Version translators were translating Isaiah from Hebrew. Even various english translations of the Bible, all from the original Hebrew, differ in the words they use 2 say the same message. Joseph ends up with whole chapters having only a couple of word changes from the exact 1611 KJV. This would be an impossibility even if the message was basically the same.

[joeyslaptop]

Again... blind hate. The Nephites (as Israelites) brought the first five books of Moses with them. Additionally, Christ relayed the same basic sermon to the Americas after His resurrection.

Joseph Smith was not just a translator. He was a prophet, seer, and revelator. He understood the Word, and rendered not just translation, but divine interpretation. In trying to prove that he was not an inspired prophet of God, you inadvertently have to prove that he was super-human in his abilities.

[carterfamily8903]

@joeyslaptop Joseph Smith was an absolute liar who tampered with the word of God at whim. He had 34 wives, 11 of which were married to another man at the time he married them. He turns egyprian godesses Isis & Maat, into King Pharaoh & Prince of Pharaoh on Page 41 of "The Pearl of Great Price". He is so inspired he couldn't tell the obvious difference between a man & a woman. The first 5 books of Moses do not include Isaiah written around 600BC around the same time Nephi was supposedly writing.

[thesignsoflife7]

Here's a very good use for this information:

Mormons love to ask where the Book of Mormon and Bible contradict.

They are keen to show that it is somehow in harmony with the Scriptures, and just as valid.

As the Book of Mormon contains almost no Mormon doctrine and just a childish rehash of Biblical concepts it's tricky to find the errors, but as you have illustrated, they're there.

[Coopster54]

I see a mormon has gone and gave every comment 1 thumbs down. ROFL!!

[alofano]

carterfamily8903, thank you for taking the time to put together something worthwhile.  And as for Awesometown1982, if I were you I would hold my mouth as ever time you open it, you sound terrible and foolish.

[cayetanohawaii]

Great job on the video! I think you point out a lot of great facts that nobody thinks about. It is unfortunate that so many people avoid and deny the truth. No matter what you try to tell them, they refuse to open up their minds. I get frustrated talking with people on here because when they know the're about to be proven wrong, they avoid having a conversation altogether. Many of them also give ridiculous responses about why they are right.

[carterfamily8903]

Thank you, I agree that conversations on YouTube can easily become frustrating, but one thing that helps me, is remembering how stubborn and prideful, I used to be as a Mormon myself, and seeing also how patient God has been, and is, with me and other people.

[awolLDSasap]

Nice job cf.

Obvious theft and the use of Kings English in ancient American Indian writings. Too funny!

[Awesometown1982]

Buddy, you should honestly use your time to build people up rather than to tear others down, you should focus on teaching people how to get to heaven rather than just focusing on teaching people how to avoid hell, its a lot better way to do it trust me

[carterfamily8903]

Builting someone up, who is on their way to hell, is evil and wrong. Jesus didn't walk around complimenting people on believing in something, if what they believed was wrong, which was nearly 100 percent of the time, that they were believing something wrong. He corrected them on their errors, and pointed them to God. Joseph Smith was a false prophet, leading people to hell, so that he could have his lusts fulfilled, for money and women and power. Jesus is THE WAY to heaven. There is no other.

[Awesometown1982]

Im just saying that it look like you have spent your time posting video after video all of which are all negative videos towards the Mormon Church, you have not posted one positive video

[sanjayarulz]

LOL, is this guy for real? He is the epitome of Mormon foolishness!!!!

[sanjayarulz]

That comment was for

Awesometown1982

[mayacpan]

i agree

[Awesometown1982]

Oh ok ya im sorry you're right, continue on trying to tear down other peoples faith, I hope it brings much happiness into your life

[carterfamily8903]

I am pointing out lies, and fraud, being taught to people, that if believed leads them to destruction. Jesus taught that He is the Way to heaven, Everything that adds to or takes away from that is Satanic deception. All people have faith in something, but if it is in the wrong thing, they will go to hell. Atheists have more blind faith than anyone else, they believe that everything happened by chance.

[Awesometown1982]

Well if you honestly believe that your motives are right and just then by all means continue what you're doing, but if its not affecting your salvation then I say leave them alone and let people believe what they want to believe, Im just saying

[Awesometown1982]

So what if somebody has faith in the wrong thing because he doesnt know about the right thing, but would have had faith in the right thing had he known about it does he go to hell too??

[carterfamily8903]

What happens or does not happen to others, is no excuse for us. God has given every person on this planet, some very key evidences, & insights into who He is. We will be judged for our sins, not for knowing, or not knowing something. God has written His law into every heart. There is not a person alive who believes in their heart & soul, even if they are a headhunter, that murder, thievery, lying etc. is a right & good thing to do. The invisible things of God are clearly seen in what He has made

[awolLDSasap]

Carter is not trying to tear you down. He is providing the truth, the word of God.

The gospel of the LDS church is bondage.

The gospel of Christ is liberty, freedom and eternal life.

[awolLDSasap]

In Joseph Smiths new and improved gospel man becomes God.

In the Bible, God became man to pay for the sins of the whole world.

[Awesometown1982]

The New Testament quotes the Old Testament hundreds of times and so according to your theory should we denounce the New Testament as well??

[carterfamily8903]

Of course not, the trouble comes from a book claiming to have been written in reformed egyptian, & completed by 4 or 500 A.D. then translated into english in 1830, using the exact same wording in large sections at a time, as the King James Version 1611 english translation of the Bible, translated from Hebrew, Greek, & Aramic. We have other translations of the Bible, from the same original languages, that have far less in common with the KJV Bible, though they are translating the same thing.

[Awesometown1982]

Wait and see

[Awesometown1982]

You can fight against the church all you want carterfamily8903 but it won't do you any good

"Refrain from these men and let them alone: for if this council or this work be of men it will come to nought: but if it be of God ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God"

Acts 5: 38 - 39

[carterfamily8903]

That is a great verse, the Mormon church has been fighting against God, for nearly two centuries now, but they will not succeed. The truth will prevail, and Mormonism must retreat into the shadows, when the light shines on the foundation of lies, that it is built upon.

[carterfamily8903]

God already knows, He doesn't need informed about anything, He wrote the Bible, and Satan helped Joseph to put together the Book of Mormon. Along with the Mormon church that is teaching the same doctrines that Satan was teaching from the beginning. (God's word cannot be trusted, and if you ignore God, and do things Satan's way, he tells you, you will be like gods.) God is God, and He is not ever going to be equaled, or replaced.

[heyman537]

Anyway, God won't be visiting you in hell. God's plan is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, but he's not going to force you.

[carterfamily8903]

I will not be in hell, I will be in heaven with God. Hell was created for Satan and his angels and servants. Joseph Smith will certainly be there, along with every person who is wanting to be a god, like their father the devil, who thought he could be a god, but found out differently, though he is trying to convince the rest of the world now that they can be. You can believe a fairy tale, and a lie, if you want to. But it will lead to extreme dissapointment in eternity for you.

[heyman537]

So you think you will be in heaven? I don't think you are headed in the right direction. But I'm curious about this -- if you do go to heaven, do you think you will be there with your wife and family?

[carterfamily8903]

1 John 5:10-13 is my assurance that I will be in heaven when I die. The Mormon church is very deceptive with their whole families together forever lie. The Bible presents very clearly, that in eternity there will only be two families. Those who are born again, and are the adopted children of God, and those who are of their father the devil. I will be with every believer in eternity. With three kingdoms of glory, and people populating their own planets, Mormon families cannot possibly be together

[heyman537]

You may say you believe in Christ but you don't believe in the right one. It is my testimony to you that families can be together. But as for you ... maybe not.

I have accepted Christ as my Savior and have committed to sacrificing all that I have to further God's work.

[carterfamily8903]

Even if Mormonism were true, which it definitely is not, families could only possibly be together if they went to a lower "kingdom of glory", because if a family all becomes gods & each is on their own planet or planets, trying to populate & keep up with them, there will be no way that they could in any sense of the words, "be together forever". The Mormon gods are idols. The one true God, has no equal, and CREATED all things. He did not build them out of eternally existing unassembled matter.

[heyman537]

Do you remember the scripture that man's ways are not God's ways, and vice versa? It's laughable to hear you try to explain away eternal marriages and such.

I don't know all the answers obviously, but I know the Savior lives, that he loves us and that the gospel was restored through Joseph Smith. Sorry you disagree but you can always turn around.

[carterfamily8903]

I do know that scripture, and Mormonism is a great example of mans ways. Man would like to think he will one day be a god, that is what caused the fall of Satan. He wanted to be a god. Eternal marriage is nowhere to be found in either the Bible or even the Book of Mormon, but Jesus did declare that there is no marriage in heaven in Matthew 12:25. You can argue with God and His word, if you want to, but God won't be moved by your opinion, or the opinion of a false prophet like Joseph Smith.

[heyman537]

Poor video.

[carterfamily8903]

The Book of Mormon is a very poor book, written by a poor but very greedy false prophet.

[heyman537]

Tell that to God when you go to hell.