The consequences of this doctrine, when carried to its logical conclusion, are devastating. A soldier who believes but is killed in battle before he can be baptized would perish,,is this hypothetical to you??,,is hospice hypothetical to you?
Try this: "He that believes and repents shall be saved, but he who disbelieveth shall be condemned." Is THAT a true sentence? Of course it is. And it means both conditions are necessary, of course.
@uwique You said - "The Scriptures clearly tell us that we have eternal life the moment we beleive"
Luke 8
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which FOR A WHILE BELIEVE , AND IN TIME OF TEMPTATION FALL AWAY......
@Bobsblues yes thats true,,you can accept christ,and eventually fall away from the truth if u dont work out your salvation and go back to your old ways.
1 repents of his sins 1st??ok..whose he praying to when hes repenting?,,its a sinner praying to god for the remission of sins. Suppose - just suppose - that baptism is a PART of "complying with" or "being obedient to." Then what? Then Mark 16: 16 does NOT contradict Eph 2: 8, does it?but its not,,its just said gods grace saves u,,theres no metion of water there,,your the 1 tryin to put water in there.
@lllannallll Prayer follows it. OK, your turn.,,ok,,so what are u praying for?LOLwhen a sinner repents,hes praying to god to take away his sin..another mountain out of a molehill..lol
@lllannallll Baptism is a testimony of our faith and a public declaration that we believe in Jesus Christ. The Scriptures clearly tell us that we have eternal life the moment we beleive
@uwique "The Scriptures clearly tell us that we have eternal life the moment we beleive" No, they dont! And YOU are the one who said one was NOT saved the "moment we believe" but God would miraculously extend the life of someone so he could repent and be saved, right? Remember that? So no, he was NOT saved the "moment we believe." See how you cross yourself up?
@lllannallll i'll give u the definition of beleive,maybe that will help u,,so what your saying is,only a certain kinda communication with god is praying?..yes extend the life to be saved,
@uwique "The Scriptures clearly tell us that we have eternal life the moment we beleive" Not clear enough for you to believe it. That's another copy and paste. YOU said "God will miraculously extend the life of a believer SO HE CAN REPENT in order to be saved." Now you're trying to have him saved the moment he believes.
@lllannallll clopy and paste,,ok,,your point is,nevemind,,u dont have 1.actually,,i looked up repent in the dictionary,,and guess what,i cut and pasted it to ya!!lolwhat do u mean pray about it?,,u tell the sinner to pray about it?,,explain pls.
@uwique "u tell the sinner to pray about it?" No, I don't - not at all. An unsaved person has absolutely no right to pray about anything and no assurance that such a prayer would be answered if he tried it. No unsaved person after the cross was EVER told to utter a prayer. The Great Physician gave His prescription unsaved people over and over - and praying for forgiveness aint in it.
@lllannallll your doctrine is just about satanic,,jesus told us to repent,,i ask u a question,,how is it that u have to goto your bro in christ to ask for forgiveness,but u dont have to goto god for it??can u explain that there legalism?
@uwique "i ask u a question,,how is it that u have to goto your bro in christ to ask for forgiveness,but u dont have to goto god for it?" If he's a BROTHER in Christ, then I am saved (and he is saved) so that's not an example of an unsaved person doing ANYTHING.
@lllannallll i asked u if your bro offended u,,your supposed to gto him and ask for forgiveness,but u tell me u dont have to ask god for anything,,hows that possible?LOL
@uwique "can u explain that there legalism?" LMAO @ "legalism." Certainly I'm legalistic - I try to be. The New TESTAMENT is a WILL - the last will and testament of Jesus Christ, and HE said "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved."
@lllannallll New TESTAMENT is a WILL - the last will and testament of Jesus Christ, and HE said "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.",but he who disbeleveth is condemmed,,so now we see where the heavier meaning is,its in beleif,with a dozen other scripture in the bible.
@uwique "ok,,your point is,nevemind,,u dont have 1" Sure I do. You say, "Well, the Bible tells an unsaved person to repent." That's TRUE! Then you say, "An unsaved person is REPENTING when he PRAYS." No, he's NOT. He's PRAYING - or trying to. Repentance is simply a change in mind/willpower induced by Godly sorrow.
@lllannallll An unsaved person is REPENTING when he PRAYS." No, he's NOT. He's PRAYING ok..what do u call a person who is asking god for forgiveness??thats not praying??what is it called? asking? your silly bud!i asked u before,when u sin againts your bro in christ,u ask for his forgiveness,now u tell me u dont have to ask god for forgiveness when hes the very 1 your sinning against?LOL
@lllannallll sorry,,but u have a definition of repentance that fits your false doctrine.btw,,i did use the dictionary for the def of repentance.what your sayin is god has no remorse for the sinner when he asks for forgiveness?LOLthats the most unbiblical thing i ever heard.when your speaking to god,what is it called?
@uwique repentance: "a change of mind, especially the change of mind of those who have begun to abhor their errors and misdeeds, and have determined to enter upon a better course of life. To change one's mind or purpose, to change one's opinion."" (Thayer/Vine/Liddell/Scott) Dude, I'm not adding to nor taking from the defintion. I have cited it from 3 lexicons and taking it as it stands. YOU are the one who adds "asking God", "praying", etc to it.
@uwique I've asked you to find ONE unsaved person who was ever told to pray about anything - including forgiveness - in the entire New Testament since the cross. There isn't a ONE! Yet you are telling people to DO it and giving them a false assurance that such a prayer is actually doing some good. You tell them that baptism WON'T do it (see Mark 16: 16), but a canned prayer WILL (without an ounce of Biblical support.) THAT is the point.
@lllannallll wow!!i never seen a church before who puts baptism over salvation,,u need to question your doctrine.when a sinner asks god for forgivceness..u mean hes not praying??u gotta be kidding!LOL
@uwique "when a sinner asks god for forgivceness..u mean hes not praying?" Find some proof that any sinner - an unsaved person - was ever saved by praying or that praying played ANY role or that any unsaved person was ever told to pray. You can't find a thing.
@lllannallll really??confessing your sins to god is wrong?LOL..telling people to ask god for forgiveness of sin is not wrong,what bible do u have?it sure aint gods word.
@uwique And Challenge #1 still holds good: we're on the subject of baptism, so find some verses on baptism that teach your doctrine. Wanna try Mark 16: 16 again? "He that (a) and (b) shall receive $1,000, but he that does not (a) shall not." Show us ONE widdle sentence in which the (b) would not be as necessary as the (a). You NEVER attempted that, and you won't. No wonder. And you can't do Challenge #2 either.
@uwique So there's challenge #2: produce ONE example, after the cross, of an unsaved person praying for ANYTHING. Or produce ONE example of an unsaved person being TOLD to pray for ANYTHING. You certainly teach it, but you know what? You can't possibly find it - I've looked. But be my guest. Tell me WHO did it? WHO told them to do it? WHAT did they pray for? C'mon. You TELL people to DO IT, yet you can't even FIND it in the Bible. You can't do #1 or #2.
@uwique "a scriptue that says i will goto hell if not baptised,,can u do it?" Of course I can. I've told you Jn 3: 3-5 about six or seven times now. Mark 16: 16 says the equivalent.
@lllannallll I've told you Jn 3: 3-5 about six or seven times now. Mark 16: 16 says the equivalent.no it doesnt sir,,its not even closeYou lie to people.prove it;;really?tellin people to turn from sin is lying?LOLthats a good 1..lol..jesus died on te cross so sinners can repent,,if u preach anything else than this,,your doctrine is incorrect,,like the COC.
@uwique Here's Challenge #3 for you: LOOK UP the definition of "repentance" in any standard lexicon. Tell us what the word MEANS. SEE if you can find a HINT of a prayer in there. You have very little use for a dictionary or lexicon. If you look it up and see the definition, you'll give up your argument on it. Soooooooooo ... you wont do #3 either.
@lllannallll Here's Challenge #3 for you: LOOK UP the definition of "repentance" in any standard lexicon. Tell us what the word MEANS. SEE if you can find a HINT of a prayer in there..i looked it up and pasted it to u,actually,out of the dictionary too so,,u know
@lllannallll there no hint of prayer,,the def of repentance means to be sorry for,when u ask god to forgive u of your sins,your repenting,your telling him.im sorry for sinning against u,so in essence,your turning away from sin when god sheds his grace on you,,you do this by asking god,,u happy i dint use the word prayer?LOL
@uwique "u happy i dint use the word prayer?LOL" Umm.. yeah. You used "ask God" and "telling God", but remember, YOU are the one who can't take a standard Greek dictionary and find such a thing in it. You made it up.
I don't care if Baptist is in mind of a man or not, God STILL said no poop shute screwing, NO fornication, NO murder, NO theft, NO testifying against person as false witness, NO dishonoring parents, NO adultery, NO rape, keep sabbath Holy, PRAY, and do not MAKE IMAGES OF GOD, thusly Christ is not God, there's pictures of him everywhere except on a beetle's back.Jesus said God is in me God is in you We are all one.That don't mean worship Jesus and yourself to boot.
church of christ is a body of beleivers,,its not an organization like yours that says there the only one going to heaven,,are u guys serious??...what twisted doctrine.
@uwique "church of christ is a body of beleivers" <-- you made that one up, too. If you were right, the devils would be in it because they believe. The chief rulers of John 12 would be great candidates for it: they "believed in Him", yet flat-out refuse to confess their belief. The Jews of John 8: 31 would be good ones, too:they "believed on Him", yet Jesus called them "of your father the Devil" in verse 44. You sure it's just "believers"? If so, you got some strange folks in there.
you see people,,,thats why church of christ people dont go to hospice to preach salvation to people,according to their twisted doctrine,a person is already condemmed to hell if he/she cannot be baptised in waterusually,,they will just answer you in anger when they dont have an answer,,truth is,,they dont preach to no body,they dont pray for the sick,,and they have no idea how to lead somone to christ,,this my freinds,,is a FALSE RELIGION!!
@BibleSaysTV how does a gift from god get into the mouths of unbelievers??its an outpouring,somthing your church wouldnt know of..unsaved people dont get the manifestation of the holy spirit,so peter is not talking about a divine order,hes talking about things that indicate that u are truly saved.
@uwique "unsaved people dont get the manifestation of the holy spirit" <-- sure they can and they HAVE! Unsaved people and ANIMALS have prophesied, spoken by divine revelation, and the like. Would you like examples of it, or is it easier to just claim that the Spirit descended upon Cornelius - and jump from that into being certain Cornelius was saved at that point. That's just what you're doing!
@lllannallll ok,,this will be the last time on this subject cuase your totally lost on it ok??,,UNSAVED PEOPLE DONT SPEAK IN TOUNGES.are u in the only denom that doesnt know this?
@BibleSaysTV ok,,u seem simple,i'll explain it like this..."baptize" a religious cerimony in which water is used as a SYMBOL of cleansing from sin.Churches today baptize by sprinkling or pouring or immersing in water.Baptism is a SIGN that our sins are washed away and that jesus has taken us to be his own.
@uwique Anyway, we're on Mark 16: 16: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned." You plainly stated that Mark 16 does NOT teach the necessity of baptism. I asked for ONE - not five - ONE sentence in English - just make one up - in which "He that (a) and (b) shall receive $1,000, but he that does not (a) shall not." Show us ONE widdle sentence in which the (b) would not be as necessary as the (a). C'mon now!
@lllannallll u gotta be kidding me!1,,i gave u scripture,which u totally ignored,,and that scripture backs up my interpretation,not yoursand about the church of christ being a body of beleivers,i didnt make that up,,u guys did,thinking that its your denom that its talkin about..loltalk about makin somthin upand i told u about the word beleivers didt i?those are saved people,,your interpretation is wrong.
@uwique "i gave u scripture,which u totally ignored" <-- I didn't ignore it! I said no one disputes that an unbeliever is condemned, do they? I was much more interested NOT in how to stay condemned, but how to be SAVED.
@lllannallll just because Mark 16:16 says that “he who believes and is baptized will be saved” it does not mean that if one believes, but is not baptized, he will not be saved. Yet, this is exactly what is assumed by those that look to this verse to support the view that baptism is necessary for salvation.
@lllannallll Now, if we use the same logic on this statement as those that believe that Mark 16:16 teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation, then we would have to conclude that if both the first conditions were not met (1—leaving their homes, 2—fleeing from New Orleans,) then everyone else would perish.
@lllannallll Yet, in real life we know this was not true. Some people did stay in their homes in the low-lying areas and did not perish. In this situation it is easy to see that while the first statement is true, it is not true to assume that all those that did not flee New Orleans perished
@lllannallll Yet, if we use the same logic being used by those that say that Mark 16:16 teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation, that is the conclusion that must be reached. Yet, it is clearly an erroneous conclusion.
@lllannallll Another example we might consider would be this statement: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, those that do not believe are condemned." Again take note of the similar structure as is found in Mark 16:16, and yet once again, it becomes clear that to say that only believers who live in Kansas are saved is an illogical and false assumption
@uwique Me: "I asked for ONE - not five - ONE sentence in English - just make one up - in which "He that (a) and (b) shall receive $1,000, but he that does not (a) shall not." You: ""Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, those that do not believe are condemned." <-- is that your parallel sentence?
@lllannallll While Mark 16:16 does tell us something about believers who have been baptized (they will be saved), again, it says nothing about believers who have not been baptized.
@lllannallll Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved.” “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved” (Mark 16:16). While both of these statements are true, we should notice that the first statement says nothing about people who believe and don’t live in Kansas. And in the same way, Mark 16:16 tells us nothing about believers who have not been baptized.
@lllannallll It is a logical fallacy and false assumption, to make the first statement say that you have to live in Kansas to be saved, or the second statement say that you have to be baptized to be saved.
@uwique You copied-and-pasted-from-a-website statement, "Yet, it is clearly an erroneous conclusion." Wanna see a clearly worded statement, and I'll ask for your conclusion? "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas shall receive $1,000, those that do not believe shall not." Alright, there's the parallel sentence. Are you saying that someone who doesn't live in Kansas has any right whatsoever to receive the $1,000? I think everyone would answer in unison, "No!"
@lllannallll so its erroneus i copied and pasted?LOL..my point is,,to beleive what u beleive about baptism contradicts eph 2;8 and all the other scriptures that talk about salvation with no water.
@uwique "to beleive what u beleive about baptism contradicts eph 2;8" I plainly said that "faith" means "to have confidence in, to trust in, to comply with, to be obedient to, to believe in". You've never denied that definition. Suppose - just suppose - that baptism is a PART of "complying with" or "being obedient to." Then what? Then Mark 16: 16 does NOT contradict Eph 2: 8, does it?
@uwique "It is a logical fallacy and false assumption, to make the first statement say that you have to live in Kansas to receive the $1,000, or the second statement say that you have to be baptized to receive the $1,000." <-- REALLY? Looks more like a "logical fallacy and false assumption" to say a person who aint in Kansas - and maybe never set foot in Kansas - should get the $1,000. You need to try again: nobody would buy into that one.
@lllannallll didnt yu say beleiveth is not repentance?it seems in mark 16;16 it islisten,,what do u do when u repent to god?your putting your trust in,having confidence in,and your faith is knowing that he will forgive u,therefore,shedding grace on you and now your saved,,u see how easy that was,,and all without water,so u see,mark 16;16 CANT mean what your sayin,cuase now we have contradictions.
@uwique "didnt yu say beleiveth is not repentance?" I said if the definition of BELIEF - faith - can be EXTENDED far enough to include repentance (which it can), then it is certainly elastic enough to include baptism. Why on earth would you ADD one, yet refuse to add the other?
@lllannallll can be EXTENDED far enough to include repentance (which it can), then it is certainly elastic enough to include baptism. Why on earth would you ADD one, yet refuse to add the other?i told u before,,baptism is a symbol of ones salvation,its an INDICATION of salvation,,not a divine order..here we go again.lol
@lllannallll "i gave u scripture,which u totally ignored" <-- I didn't ignore it! I said no one disputes that an unbeliever is condemned, do they? I was much more interested NOT in how to stay condemned, but how to be SAVED...beleiveth on the lord,and u will be saved,,you know that scripture,,u know the 1 where yur church has a problem with?..it tells u how to be saved,baptism is a symbol and asign and an indication your saved,,theres no saving power in water,,its in grace.
@lllannallll was much more interested NOT in how to stay condemned, but how to be SAVED.let me know how many scriptures u need that explain how to be saved,i'll get em for ya.
@uwique "let me know how many scriptures u need that explain how to be saved" ONE: Mark 16: 16. You NEVER did this: ""He that (a) and (b) shall receive $1,000, but he that does not (a) shall not." Show us ONE widdle sentence in which the (b) would not be as necessary as the (a). You NEVER attempted that, and you won't. No wonder. Give it a try!
@lllannallll u will NOT get a parallel sentence,,i gave u scripture,,i did u 1 better buddy!we were talkin about christian people bein the body of beleivers,,not hypocrite pharisees.dont u read scripture??or does ur church intepret for u?btw,,baptism is a work,,u need to question your salvation.
@uwique "u will NOT get a parallel sentence,,i gave u scripture" Hahahaha! You gave a scripture that said non-believer is condemned. Well, of COURSE he is! A nonbeliever is also unbaptized. And I KNOW I won't get any sort of a parallel sentence to Mark 16: 16. If you tried it, you'd disprove your whole theology. That's why I keep asking you for it. You know you can't do it. Shoot, I asked ANYONE for it.
@uwique "u will NOT get a parallel sentence" Of course not! Out of a million possibilities, how many scream back you, "Both (a) and (b) are necessary?" ONE MILLION to ZERO! Certainly, Jesus Christ said "He that (a) believeth and (b) is baptized (c) shall be saved ...." And you think that's the ONLY sentence in the world in which (b) is totally unnecessary in order to get to (c)? THAT is why I'll continue to ask for that parallel sentence. You can't supply one; no one can.
@uwique Someone please step in and help "uwique" give us ONE parallel sentence. He's decided "disgression is the better part of valor" - so he disgressed (and disgraced) himself outta giving one. Would someone step up and help the boy out? Or .... is his view of the passage simply wrong?
@lllannallll do i need to post the scripture again about being condemmed if u dont beleive??just let me know,,it mite help u out of your legalism that stands before u and god.U place your salvation on works {baptism}
@uwique "do i need to post the scripture again about being condemmed if u dont beleive?" Shucks, I can do that: "Without faith it is impossible to please God." How'd that for you? What you NEED to do is prove your absurd explanation - copied from some website, I might add. You've asserted that Mark 16: 16 is the ONLY sentence in the English language, past or present, that grammatically supports your views. I asked for another one. Grammatically, Mark 16: 16 is against you.
@uwique Just to remind you: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned." You plainly stated that Mark 16 does NOT teach the necessity of baptism. I asked for ONE - not five - ONE sentence in English - just make one up - in which "He that (a) and (b) shall receive $1,000, but he that does not (a) shall not." Show us ONE widdle sentence in which the (b) would not be as necessary as the (a). C'mon now!
@lllannallll “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16). If we look at this verse closely, we see that it is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned.
@lllannallll Clearly, the determining factor regarding whether one is saved or condemned is whether or not he believes. In interpreting this passage correctly, it is important to realize that while it tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they are saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would have had to be included, that statement .
@lllannallll being: “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.
@lllannallll the sinners prayer is a prayer of repentancei f u repent of your sins,god is just to forgive u..now tell me if there is somthing wrong with what i just said??of couse theres not.its a sinner asking for gods forgiveness,thats why its called the sinners prayer,take your legalism blinds off your eyes.
@lllannallll he that beleiveth??whats that mean to u?beleveth,to put trust in have confidence in,that means u repented already,it would be useless to put trust in have confidence in god,if he hasnt already forgiven u,,it would be in vain.
@uwique "beleveth,to put trust in have confidence in,that means u repented already" Huh? You've told that God would EXTEND the life of a BELIEVER so he COULD repent. Now you're saying if he believes, he's ALREADY repented. Land's sakes, which comes first in your theology? Belief/faith or repentance? You flip-flop around and say belief comes first, then they're just a BLUR, then repentance comes first.
@lllannallll if god knows the person is gonna repent,sure his life willbe extended,if he repents of sin,hes a beleiver in christ,,anyone who doesnt repent to god,is an unbeleiver,,now u look up the definition of a "beleiver".you know,,all someone has to do is confess their sins to christ,and they will be saved..there u go again,,making a mountain out of a molehill.
@uwique "thats why its called the sinners prayer" <-- I could care less what someone "calls" it - there's NO mention or example of such a thing under the New Testament. Tell ya what, you've done so well with Mark 16, why don't you find an example of the "sinner's prayer" at ANY point since the death of Christ. You can't do that either. It's not there.
@lllannallll oh really??if you confess your sins by repenting to christ,,so that not a sinner praying to god to forgive him of his sins??so tell me now,,wheres the sin in calling it the sinners prayer??try to keep your legalism out of it ok??i know its gonna be hard though for ya.
@uwique "if you confess your sins by repenting to christ" IF? If WHO? A saved person or an unsaved one? If you start at the cross of Christ - when the New Covenant was put into place - there NEVER WAS a case of an unsaved person PRAYING for forgiveness of ANYTHING. You can't find it - yet you teach it!
@uwique "a sinner repenting to god,,its a sinner praying to god for the remission of sins" LOL No, it's not. One repents of his sins FIRST. He's not "repenting" when he's "praying." He has ALREADY repented. I repeat: since the cross of Christ, you can't find any COMMAND - any EXAMPLE - of an unsaved person praying for ANYTHING. What's the harm? It's made-up, for one thing!
@lllannallll u have no understanding of scripture,,yu tell me that the christian has to confess his sins,but the sinner doesnt have to repent to nobody??sir,,,your insane!!
@lllannallll I can't help it if Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved", "beleiveth",,how does the beleiveth save u?the scripture says if u beleiveth ur savedNow you're saying if he believes, he's ALREADY repented. Land's sakes,,doesnt the scripture say it?
@lllannallll An unsaved person prays to NO ONE for forgiveness! I've asked you to cite a case.well.simple pimple..being that its god u sin against shouldnt he be the 1 that forgives u?LOL..no wonder your church is not saved.
@lllannallll ohmy!!how do u get forgiveness then if you dont confess?1st john 1;9,,if we confess our sins,he is just to forgive us,,who are u confessing to?..god,,being that its god u sin against,,are u for real??,,theres no one in your church that is saved.
@uwique "if we confess our sins,he is just to forgive us" <-- the "we" in that passage is people who are ALREADY SAVED, dummy. We are talking about what an unsaved person must DO in order to BECOME saved, and you quote a passage about people who are already Christians confessing sins?
to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc. (often followed by of ):
@lllannallll "repent"to turn away from sin,to be SORRY for what youve done,,who do u sin against??and who do u repent to??gee,,thats hard,,isnt it god?LOL
@uwique ""repent"to turn away from sin,to be SORRY for what youve done" <-- No, it doesn't. I wish you'd define ONE word correctly. "Godly sorrow worketh repentance." You have sorrow FIRST, then you repent. Godly sorrow is NOT repentance.
@lllannallll oh my gosh!!,,that is the definition of repent,,where do u get your info from?u are out in left feild pal,,so your tellin me that u dont have to ask god for forgiveness?LOL
@lllannallll I wish you'd define ONE word correctly. "Godly sorrow worketh repentance."you mean define it to fit your doctrine??thats exactly what u mean.
@lllannallll i guess the dictionary is not good either for defining?LOL,,thats when u repent to god,,u have sorrow that u have sinned,now your telling him yur turning away from it .
@lllannallll “we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7).wow look!..another grace scripture,
@lllannallll A soldier who believes but is killed in battle before he can be baptized would perish,,according to your doctrine,,this statement would be true,accordin to bible,its false
@uwique "why dont u look up the def of repentance" I did. I told you to take a Thayer's or Liddell/Scott, the standard Greek dictionaries, and "copy and paste" the definition. You won't do that either.
@lllannallll why dont u look up the def of repentance" I did. I told you to take a Thayer's or Liddell/Scott, the standard Greek dictionaries, and "copy and paste" the definition.
@lllannallll no..we tell them to repent,just like the bible does..when your sayin your sorry to god,the action your doin is praying,,u have a real good way of twisting things,u make a better lawyer than a christian..lol
@uwique "no..we tell them to repent,just like the bible does..when your sayin your sorry to god" Repentance is NOT "saying your sorry to God." Man, would you look it up in Thayer's Online?
@lllannallll i already looked it up,,and guess what,i cut and pasted it to u, udidnt say much about that did ya?LOL,,it says to have sorrow for,,u want me to paste it?or bettet yet,,do u want where i got it from?
@lllannallll i think it would be beneficial for u to start using scripture.Throughout the Bible, in every dispensation, people have been saved without being baptized. Every believer in the Old Testament (e.g. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon) was saved but not baptized. The thief on the cross was saved but not baptized. Cornelius was saved before he was baptized (Acts 10:44-46).
@uwique You TELL people to DO IT, yet you can't even FIND it in the Bible. You can't do #1 or #2.,,u right,,we preach the gospel,not legalism,,your doctrine puts people in bondage.
@uwique you tell people theyre goin to hell without being baptised,and there is no clear scripture that says it,,,not 1,,,we can go tit for tat all day on this huh?
@uwique "we can go tit for tat all day on this huh?" No need. "He that shows up for class and passes shall receive $1,000, but he who does not show up shall not" Well? If the kid doesn't pass, do you think he has any right whatsoever to expect the $1G? That .. THAT .. oughta be enough to cause you to stop and think. Thus, baptism stands squared between a "believer" and the "shall be saved." Your "slant" on Mark 16: 16 was obviously wrong.
@lllannallll he who shows up for class and passes,will be saved...but he who doesnt show up,will be condemmed..if the kid doesnt show up,hes condemmed..if the kid does not pass??,,it says if the kid doesnt show up,hes condemmed,cant pass somting if u dont show up for it,so now he didnt show up,so hes condemmed.
@uwique "it says if the kid doesnt show up,hes condemmed,cant pass somting if u dont show up for it" <-- Yeah, so make the application: tell us what happens if the kid DOES show up but DOES NOT PASS. Does he get the $1,000 or not?
@lllannallll rweally?what if the person beleives on the lord jesus christ..is he saved like the bible and many other scriptures say so?,,no matter how u look at it,the EMPHAISIS is on beleif.if being saved by grace is true,then no water needed,u make the bible have contradictions.
@lllannallll Assuming that verse 16 was included in Mark’s original manuscript, does it teach that baptism is required for salvation? The simple answer is: No, it does not. In fact, when one carefully examines this verse, it becomes clear that in order to make this it teach that baptism is required for salvation, one must go beyond what the verse actually says.
@lllannallll What this verse does teach is that belief is necessary for salvation, which is consistent with all other verses in the Bible that deal with salvation, especially the countless verses where only belief or faith is mentioned (e.g. John 3:18; John 5:24; John 12:44; John 20:31; 1 John 5:13).
@lllannallll In interpreting this passage correctly, it is important to realize that while it tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they are saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would have had to be included, that statement being: “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.”
@lllannallll Those who try to use Mark 16:16 to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation commit a common but serious logical fallacy that is sometimes called the Negative Inference Fallacy. This fallacy can be stated as follows: “If a statement is true, we cannot assume that all negations (or opposites) of that statement are also true.
@lllannallll In other words, just because Mark 16:16 says that “he who believes and is baptized will be saved” it does not mean that if one believes, but is not baptized, he will not be saved. Yet, this is exactly what is assumed by those that look to this verse to support the view that baptism is necessary for salvation.
@lllannallll Another example we might consider would be this statement: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, those that do not believe are condemned." Again take note of the similar structure as is found in Mark 16:16, and yet once again, it becomes clear that to say that only believers who live in Kansas are saved is an illogical and false assumption. While Mark 16:16 does tell us something about believers who have been baptized (they will be saved),
@lllannallll Another example we might consider would be this statement: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, those that do not believe are condemned." Again take note of the similar structure as is found in Mark 16:16, and yet once again, it becomes clear that to say that only believers who live in Kansas are saved is an illogical and false assumption. While Mark 16:16 does tell us something about believers who have been baptized (they will be saved),
@uwique "Oh, answer the question: "tell us what happens if the kid DOES show up but DOES NOT PASS. Does he get the $1,000 or not?" Does he or not?" Oh, I could care less about your copied-and-pasted errors. Truth is: u KNOW the kid has NO RIGHT AT ALL to expect the $1,000 if he doesn't pass, but I wanna force you to SAY it. And, so far, you simply avoid it.
@uwique ""Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, those that do not believe are condemned." Wanna try that one without the "will be saved", and see how it goes for you? Here: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will receive $1,000" How's that. Do you think a person living in Texas has any right to the $1,000? Of course not.
@uwique "again, it says nothing about believers who have not been baptized." Sure it does: How's this if you wanna take a look at an unbaptized believer? "He that believeth and is baptized shall receive $1,000 .... " Will that work for you? So theoretically a person could NEVER be baptized and STILL can expect the $1,000? I dont much think so.
@lllannallll It is important to realize that just because Mark 16:16 has two conditions relating to salvation (believe and be baptized), it does not mean that both conditions are requirements for being saved. This would also hold true if a third condition was added. Whether it is two or three conditions in a statement about salvation, the fact is, that does not mean that all three conditions must be met for one to be saved.
@uwique "It is important to realize that just because Mark 16:16 has two conditions relating to salvation (believe and be baptized), it does not mean that both conditions are requirements for being saved." LOL OK. Try this: "He that believes and repents shall be saved, but he who disbelieveth shall be condemned." Is THAT a true sentence? Of course it is. And it means both conditions are necessary, of course.
@lllannallll well..u see,,tihs is why my denom and your denom dont agree,cuase of interpretation,so that only means 1 thing,we will have to got other scriptures to see if water baptism is essential for salvation ok?
@uwique "so that only means 1 thing,we will have to got other scriptures to see if water baptism is essential for salvation ok?" Well, no .. not really. Mark 16: 16 ALONE teaches it. But fine .. go to another scripture on baptism, if you wanna see what it's for. Which one you want? Act 2: 38, Acts 22: 16, or some other.. You suggested it, so pick another one on baptism. Mark 16: 16 sure didn't help ya much.
@lllannallll no,mark 16;16 says nothing of baptism for salvation,i dont see it,and it doesnt mean itwe will goto other scripture to prove it wrong,,and it will be easy.
@uwique "no,mark 16;16 says nothing of baptism for salvation,i dont see it,and it doesnt mean it" Well, i'll tell you one thing: I bet your "broke" from giving parallel sentence by now, since every one of them disproves you. You STILL having told me whether a kid who flunks every test has any right to the $1G?
@uwique "no,mark 16;16 says nothing of baptism for salvation" <--- oh, myyyyyyyyyy LMAO! "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved ... " Says nothing? And you say that with a straight face, when I've asked you plainly, "Does the kid who simply shows up have ANY RIGHT to expect the $1G?" And you won't answer.
@lllannallll Throughout the Bible we see that at the point of faith or belief, a believer possesses all the promises and blessings of salvation (John 1:12; 3:16; 5:24; 6:47; 20:31; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31). When one believes, he has eternal life, does not come under judgment, and has passed from death into life (John 5:24), all before he/she is baptized.Try this again.
@uwique "Throughout the Bible we see that at the point of faith or belief, a believer possesses all the promises and blessings of salvation (John 1:12)" Look @ the verse you quoted! "Believers 'have the right TO BECOME' children of God!" Plain and simple. Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ has that right - that liberty of action. Why quote that verse - it also is against you
@lllannallll to all who beleive in him became children of god,,exactly,,whats the problem?its sayin,once your saved,your a child of god,,how is that against me?LOL
@uwique "to all who beleive in him became children of god" <-- that's not what it says. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power TO BECOME the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." Now. IF ... IF ... one is a saved person at the point of belief, he would be THEN and THERE a child of God. But the verse simply says that a believer has the RIGHT .. the LIBERTY .. the POWER to become a son of God of child of God.
@uwique "again,,u twist and turn,when yur saved,your a child of god.." Why, i didn't twist. Certainly when you're saved, you're a child of God. And John 1: 12 says plainly that a believer .. what? ... IS a child of God? Well, not hardly. But a believer, at that point, certainly has the right to BECOME a child of God. Twisting? That's exactly what it says.
@lllannallll john1;2..yet to all who received him,to those who beleived in his name,he GAVE the right to become children of god,oh my gosh!,,what is your problem?LOL
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The consequences of this doctrine, when carried to its logical conclusion, are devastating. A soldier who believes but is killed in battle before he can be baptized would perish,,is this hypothetical to you??,,is hospice hypothetical to you?
uwique 2 weeks ago
Try this: "He that believes and repents shall be saved, but he who disbelieveth shall be condemned." Is THAT a true sentence? Of course it is. And it means both conditions are necessary, of course.
arent we talkin about water there buddy ro?
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique You said - "The Scriptures clearly tell us that we have eternal life the moment we beleive"
Luke 8
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which FOR A WHILE BELIEVE , AND IN TIME OF TEMPTATION FALL AWAY......
Bobsblues 2 weeks ago
@Bobsblues yes thats true,,you can accept christ,and eventually fall away from the truth if u dont work out your salvation and go back to your old ways.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@Bobsblues a christian is a beleiver.
uwique 2 weeks ago
1 repents of his sins 1st??ok..whose he praying to when hes repenting?,,its a sinner praying to god for the remission of sins. Suppose - just suppose - that baptism is a PART of "complying with" or "being obedient to." Then what? Then Mark 16: 16 does NOT contradict Eph 2: 8, does it?but its not,,its just said gods grace saves u,,theres no metion of water there,,your the 1 tryin to put water in there.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "ok..whose he praying to when hes repenting?" NO ONE! Repentance is a change in will or willpower. Prayer follows it. OK, your turn.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll Prayer follows it. OK, your turn.,,ok,,so what are u praying for?LOLwhen a sinner repents,hes praying to god to take away his sin..another mountain out of a molehill..lol
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "if your asking god to forgive u,,arent u praying?" Yes, you would be. But repentance is not "asking God to forgive you." Ok, your turn.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll yes it is,,your repenting to god for the remission of sins,,cuase what u did was ask god to washu clean,so your turning away from sin.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll your turning away from sin when u repent,so when god forgives u,he washes u clean,now u have turned away from sin.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll Baptism is a testimony of our faith and a public declaration that we believe in Jesus Christ. The Scriptures clearly tell us that we have eternal life the moment we beleive
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "The Scriptures clearly tell us that we have eternal life the moment we beleive" No, they dont! And YOU are the one who said one was NOT saved the "moment we believe" but God would miraculously extend the life of someone so he could repent and be saved, right? Remember that? So no, he was NOT saved the "moment we believe." See how you cross yourself up?
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll i'll give u the definition of beleive,maybe that will help u,,so what your saying is,only a certain kinda communication with god is praying?..yes extend the life to be saved,
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "The Scriptures clearly tell us that we have eternal life the moment we beleive" Not clear enough for you to believe it. That's another copy and paste. YOU said "God will miraculously extend the life of a believer SO HE CAN REPENT in order to be saved." Now you're trying to have him saved the moment he believes.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll clopy and paste,,ok,,your point is,nevemind,,u dont have 1.actually,,i looked up repent in the dictionary,,and guess what,i cut and pasted it to ya!!lolwhat do u mean pray about it?,,u tell the sinner to pray about it?,,explain pls.
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "u tell the sinner to pray about it?" No, I don't - not at all. An unsaved person has absolutely no right to pray about anything and no assurance that such a prayer would be answered if he tried it. No unsaved person after the cross was EVER told to utter a prayer. The Great Physician gave His prescription unsaved people over and over - and praying for forgiveness aint in it.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll your doctrine is just about satanic,,jesus told us to repent,,i ask u a question,,how is it that u have to goto your bro in christ to ask for forgiveness,but u dont have to goto god for it??can u explain that there legalism?
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "i ask u a question,,how is it that u have to goto your bro in christ to ask for forgiveness,but u dont have to goto god for it?" If he's a BROTHER in Christ, then I am saved (and he is saved) so that's not an example of an unsaved person doing ANYTHING.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll i asked u if your bro offended u,,your supposed to gto him and ask for forgiveness,but u tell me u dont have to ask god for anything,,hows that possible?LOL
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "can u explain that there legalism?" LMAO @ "legalism." Certainly I'm legalistic - I try to be. The New TESTAMENT is a WILL - the last will and testament of Jesus Christ, and HE said "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved."
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
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@lllannallll New TESTAMENT is a WILL - the last will and testament of Jesus Christ, and HE said "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.",but he who disbeleveth is condemmed,,so now we see where the heavier meaning is,its in beleif,with a dozen other scripture in the bible.
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "ok,,your point is,nevemind,,u dont have 1" Sure I do. You say, "Well, the Bible tells an unsaved person to repent." That's TRUE! Then you say, "An unsaved person is REPENTING when he PRAYS." No, he's NOT. He's PRAYING - or trying to. Repentance is simply a change in mind/willpower induced by Godly sorrow.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
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@lllannallll An unsaved person is REPENTING when he PRAYS." No, he's NOT. He's PRAYING ok..what do u call a person who is asking god for forgiveness??thats not praying??what is it called? asking? your silly bud!i asked u before,when u sin againts your bro in christ,u ask for his forgiveness,now u tell me u dont have to ask god for forgiveness when hes the very 1 your sinning against?LOL
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll sorry,,but u have a definition of repentance that fits your false doctrine.btw,,i did use the dictionary for the def of repentance.what your sayin is god has no remorse for the sinner when he asks for forgiveness?LOLthats the most unbiblical thing i ever heard.when your speaking to god,what is it called?
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique repentance: "a change of mind, especially the change of mind of those who have begun to abhor their errors and misdeeds, and have determined to enter upon a better course of life. To change one's mind or purpose, to change one's opinion."" (Thayer/Vine/Liddell/Scott) Dude, I'm not adding to nor taking from the defintion. I have cited it from 3 lexicons and taking it as it stands. YOU are the one who adds "asking God", "praying", etc to it.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
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@uwique I've asked you to find ONE unsaved person who was ever told to pray about anything - including forgiveness - in the entire New Testament since the cross. There isn't a ONE! Yet you are telling people to DO it and giving them a false assurance that such a prayer is actually doing some good. You tell them that baptism WON'T do it (see Mark 16: 16), but a canned prayer WILL (without an ounce of Biblical support.) THAT is the point.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll wow!!i never seen a church before who puts baptism over salvation,,u need to question your doctrine.when a sinner asks god for forgivceness..u mean hes not praying??u gotta be kidding!LOL
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "when a sinner asks god for forgivceness..u mean hes not praying?" Find some proof that any sinner - an unsaved person - was ever saved by praying or that praying played ANY role or that any unsaved person was ever told to pray. You can't find a thing.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll really??confessing your sins to god is wrong?LOL..telling people to ask god for forgiveness of sin is not wrong,what bible do u have?it sure aint gods word.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll believe - Definition [bih-leev]
(v.) To accept as true or as speaking the truth
(v.) To accept the truth of something
See also: believe in
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique how do u accept gods word as truth??when u repent,your accepting gods word as truthto accept the truth of something
(transitive verb)
1. to accept as true or as speaking the truth
2. to think; suppose
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll john 5;24,,is the moment we beleive.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique And Challenge #1 still holds good: we're on the subject of baptism, so find some verses on baptism that teach your doctrine. Wanna try Mark 16: 16 again? "He that (a) and (b) shall receive $1,000, but he that does not (a) shall not." Show us ONE widdle sentence in which the (b) would not be as necessary as the (a). You NEVER attempted that, and you won't. No wonder. And you can't do Challenge #2 either.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@uwique So there's challenge #2: produce ONE example, after the cross, of an unsaved person praying for ANYTHING. Or produce ONE example of an unsaved person being TOLD to pray for ANYTHING. You certainly teach it, but you know what? You can't possibly find it - I've looked. But be my guest. Tell me WHO did it? WHO told them to do it? WHAT did they pray for? C'mon. You TELL people to DO IT, yet you can't even FIND it in the Bible. You can't do #1 or #2.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll ok,,challenge for u,,a scriptue that says i will goto hell if not baptised,,can u do it?
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "a scriptue that says i will goto hell if not baptised,,can u do it?" Of course I can. I've told you Jn 3: 3-5 about six or seven times now. Mark 16: 16 says the equivalent.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll I've told you Jn 3: 3-5 about six or seven times now. Mark 16: 16 says the equivalent.no it doesnt sir,,its not even closeYou lie to people.prove it;;really?tellin people to turn from sin is lying?LOLthats a good 1..lol..jesus died on te cross so sinners can repent,,if u preach anything else than this,,your doctrine is incorrect,,like the COC.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique Here's Challenge #3 for you: LOOK UP the definition of "repentance" in any standard lexicon. Tell us what the word MEANS. SEE if you can find a HINT of a prayer in there. You have very little use for a dictionary or lexicon. If you look it up and see the definition, you'll give up your argument on it. Soooooooooo ... you wont do #3 either.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
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@lllannallll Here's Challenge #3 for you: LOOK UP the definition of "repentance" in any standard lexicon. Tell us what the word MEANS. SEE if you can find a HINT of a prayer in there..i looked it up and pasted it to u,actually,out of the dictionary too so,,u know
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll there no hint of prayer,,the def of repentance means to be sorry for,when u ask god to forgive u of your sins,your repenting,your telling him.im sorry for sinning against u,so in essence,your turning away from sin when god sheds his grace on you,,you do this by asking god,,u happy i dint use the word prayer?LOL
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "u happy i dint use the word prayer?LOL" Umm.. yeah. You used "ask God" and "telling God", but remember, YOU are the one who can't take a standard Greek dictionary and find such a thing in it. You made it up.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
I don't care if Baptist is in mind of a man or not, God STILL said no poop shute screwing, NO fornication, NO murder, NO theft, NO testifying against person as false witness, NO dishonoring parents, NO adultery, NO rape, keep sabbath Holy, PRAY, and do not MAKE IMAGES OF GOD, thusly Christ is not God, there's pictures of him everywhere except on a beetle's back.Jesus said God is in me God is in you We are all one.That don't mean worship Jesus and yourself to boot.
Lisa5656ify 3 weeks ago
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the sinners prayer is repenting,,if u can find somthing in the sinners prayer that is unblical,i'll give u a $1000!!!
uwique 3 weeks ago
the roman eagle nursing home??do u preach in there johnny,,..oh yeah thats right!..you already wrote them off didnt u?
uwique 1 month ago
church of christ is a body of beleivers,,its not an organization like yours that says there the only one going to heaven,,are u guys serious??...what twisted doctrine.
uwique 1 month ago
@uwique "church of christ is a body of beleivers" <-- you made that one up, too. If you were right, the devils would be in it because they believe. The chief rulers of John 12 would be great candidates for it: they "believed in Him", yet flat-out refuse to confess their belief. The Jews of John 8: 31 would be good ones, too:they "believed on Him", yet Jesus called them "of your father the Devil" in verse 44. You sure it's just "believers"? If so, you got some strange folks in there.
lllannallll 3 weeks ago
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you see people,,,thats why church of christ people dont go to hospice to preach salvation to people,according to their twisted doctrine,a person is already condemmed to hell if he/she cannot be baptised in waterusually,,they will just answer you in anger when they dont have an answer,,truth is,,they dont preach to no body,they dont pray for the sick,,and they have no idea how to lead somone to christ,,this my freinds,,is a FALSE RELIGION!!
uwique 1 month ago
what this guy is hoping is that everyone,is that every denom comes to the COC..lol
uwique 1 month ago
acts ch 10 cornelius house,where they spoke in tounges,,these people werent baptised,,,son,,UNSAVED PEOPLE DONT SPEAK IN TOUNGES.
uwique 1 month ago
@uwique really? The high priest prophesied in Jesus day, was he saved? Was Balaam's ass saved
BibleSaysTV 1 month ago
@BibleSaysTV how does a gift from god get into the mouths of unbelievers??its an outpouring,somthing your church wouldnt know of..unsaved people dont get the manifestation of the holy spirit,so peter is not talking about a divine order,hes talking about things that indicate that u are truly saved.
uwique 1 month ago
@uwique "unsaved people dont get the manifestation of the holy spirit" <-- sure they can and they HAVE! Unsaved people and ANIMALS have prophesied, spoken by divine revelation, and the like. Would you like examples of it, or is it easier to just claim that the Spirit descended upon Cornelius - and jump from that into being certain Cornelius was saved at that point. That's just what you're doing!
lllannallll 3 weeks ago
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@lllannallll ok,,this will be the last time on this subject cuase your totally lost on it ok??,,UNSAVED PEOPLE DONT SPEAK IN TOUNGES.are u in the only denom that doesnt know this?
uwique 3 weeks ago
@BibleSaysTV obviously u dont know what tounges are.
uwique 1 month ago
@BibleSaysTV ok,,u seem simple,i'll explain it like this..."baptize" a religious cerimony in which water is used as a SYMBOL of cleansing from sin.Churches today baptize by sprinkling or pouring or immersing in water.Baptism is a SIGN that our sins are washed away and that jesus has taken us to be his own.
uwique 1 month ago
@uwique Anyway, we're on Mark 16: 16: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned." You plainly stated that Mark 16 does NOT teach the necessity of baptism. I asked for ONE - not five - ONE sentence in English - just make one up - in which "He that (a) and (b) shall receive $1,000, but he that does not (a) shall not." Show us ONE widdle sentence in which the (b) would not be as necessary as the (a). C'mon now!
lllannallll 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll u gotta be kidding me!1,,i gave u scripture,which u totally ignored,,and that scripture backs up my interpretation,not yoursand about the church of christ being a body of beleivers,i didnt make that up,,u guys did,thinking that its your denom that its talkin about..loltalk about makin somthin upand i told u about the word beleivers didt i?those are saved people,,your interpretation is wrong.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@uwique "i gave u scripture,which u totally ignored" <-- I didn't ignore it! I said no one disputes that an unbeliever is condemned, do they? I was much more interested NOT in how to stay condemned, but how to be SAVED.
lllannallll 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll the scripture says,he that does not beleiveth is condemmed,if u dont beleveth,you are not saved/.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll just because Mark 16:16 says that “he who believes and is baptized will be saved” it does not mean that if one believes, but is not baptized, he will not be saved. Yet, this is exactly what is assumed by those that look to this verse to support the view that baptism is necessary for salvation.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll Now, if we use the same logic on this statement as those that believe that Mark 16:16 teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation, then we would have to conclude that if both the first conditions were not met (1—leaving their homes, 2—fleeing from New Orleans,) then everyone else would perish.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll Yet, in real life we know this was not true. Some people did stay in their homes in the low-lying areas and did not perish. In this situation it is easy to see that while the first statement is true, it is not true to assume that all those that did not flee New Orleans perished
uwique 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll Yet, if we use the same logic being used by those that say that Mark 16:16 teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation, that is the conclusion that must be reached. Yet, it is clearly an erroneous conclusion.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll Another example we might consider would be this statement: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, those that do not believe are condemned." Again take note of the similar structure as is found in Mark 16:16, and yet once again, it becomes clear that to say that only believers who live in Kansas are saved is an illogical and false assumption
uwique 3 weeks ago
@uwique Me: "I asked for ONE - not five - ONE sentence in English - just make one up - in which "He that (a) and (b) shall receive $1,000, but he that does not (a) shall not." You: ""Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, those that do not believe are condemned." <-- is that your parallel sentence?
lllannallll 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll i pray to god u guys dont have alot of members,,its like lost sheep.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll While Mark 16:16 does tell us something about believers who have been baptized (they will be saved), again, it says nothing about believers who have not been baptized.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved.” “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved” (Mark 16:16). While both of these statements are true, we should notice that the first statement says nothing about people who believe and don’t live in Kansas. And in the same way, Mark 16:16 tells us nothing about believers who have not been baptized.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll It is a logical fallacy and false assumption, to make the first statement say that you have to live in Kansas to be saved, or the second statement say that you have to be baptized to be saved.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@uwique You copied-and-pasted-from-a-website statement, "Yet, it is clearly an erroneous conclusion." Wanna see a clearly worded statement, and I'll ask for your conclusion? "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas shall receive $1,000, those that do not believe shall not." Alright, there's the parallel sentence. Are you saying that someone who doesn't live in Kansas has any right whatsoever to receive the $1,000? I think everyone would answer in unison, "No!"
lllannallll 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll so its erroneus i copied and pasted?LOL..my point is,,to beleive what u beleive about baptism contradicts eph 2;8 and all the other scriptures that talk about salvation with no water.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@uwique "to beleive what u beleive about baptism contradicts eph 2;8" I plainly said that "faith" means "to have confidence in, to trust in, to comply with, to be obedient to, to believe in". You've never denied that definition. Suppose - just suppose - that baptism is a PART of "complying with" or "being obedient to." Then what? Then Mark 16: 16 does NOT contradict Eph 2: 8, does it?
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@uwique "It is a logical fallacy and false assumption, to make the first statement say that you have to live in Kansas to receive the $1,000, or the second statement say that you have to be baptized to receive the $1,000." <-- REALLY? Looks more like a "logical fallacy and false assumption" to say a person who aint in Kansas - and maybe never set foot in Kansas - should get the $1,000. You need to try again: nobody would buy into that one.
lllannallll 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll didnt yu say beleiveth is not repentance?it seems in mark 16;16 it islisten,,what do u do when u repent to god?your putting your trust in,having confidence in,and your faith is knowing that he will forgive u,therefore,shedding grace on you and now your saved,,u see how easy that was,,and all without water,so u see,mark 16;16 CANT mean what your sayin,cuase now we have contradictions.
uwique 3 weeks ago
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@uwique "didnt yu say beleiveth is not repentance?" I said if the definition of BELIEF - faith - can be EXTENDED far enough to include repentance (which it can), then it is certainly elastic enough to include baptism. Why on earth would you ADD one, yet refuse to add the other?
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll can be EXTENDED far enough to include repentance (which it can), then it is certainly elastic enough to include baptism. Why on earth would you ADD one, yet refuse to add the other?i told u before,,baptism is a symbol of ones salvation,its an INDICATION of salvation,,not a divine order..here we go again.lol
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@lllannallll "i gave u scripture,which u totally ignored" <-- I didn't ignore it! I said no one disputes that an unbeliever is condemned, do they? I was much more interested NOT in how to stay condemned, but how to be SAVED...beleiveth on the lord,and u will be saved,,you know that scripture,,u know the 1 where yur church has a problem with?..it tells u how to be saved,baptism is a symbol and asign and an indication your saved,,theres no saving power in water,,its in grace.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll was much more interested NOT in how to stay condemned, but how to be SAVED.let me know how many scriptures u need that explain how to be saved,i'll get em for ya.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "let me know how many scriptures u need that explain how to be saved" ONE: Mark 16: 16. You NEVER did this: ""He that (a) and (b) shall receive $1,000, but he that does not (a) shall not." Show us ONE widdle sentence in which the (b) would not be as necessary as the (a). You NEVER attempted that, and you won't. No wonder. Give it a try!
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll u will NOT get a parallel sentence,,i gave u scripture,,i did u 1 better buddy!we were talkin about christian people bein the body of beleivers,,not hypocrite pharisees.dont u read scripture??or does ur church intepret for u?btw,,baptism is a work,,u need to question your salvation.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@uwique "u will NOT get a parallel sentence,,i gave u scripture" Hahahaha! You gave a scripture that said non-believer is condemned. Well, of COURSE he is! A nonbeliever is also unbaptized. And I KNOW I won't get any sort of a parallel sentence to Mark 16: 16. If you tried it, you'd disprove your whole theology. That's why I keep asking you for it. You know you can't do it. Shoot, I asked ANYONE for it.
lllannallll 3 weeks ago
@uwique "u will NOT get a parallel sentence" Of course not! Out of a million possibilities, how many scream back you, "Both (a) and (b) are necessary?" ONE MILLION to ZERO! Certainly, Jesus Christ said "He that (a) believeth and (b) is baptized (c) shall be saved ...." And you think that's the ONLY sentence in the world in which (b) is totally unnecessary in order to get to (c)? THAT is why I'll continue to ask for that parallel sentence. You can't supply one; no one can.
lllannallll 3 weeks ago
@uwique Someone please step in and help "uwique" give us ONE parallel sentence. He's decided "disgression is the better part of valor" - so he disgressed (and disgraced) himself outta giving one. Would someone step up and help the boy out? Or .... is his view of the passage simply wrong?
lllannallll 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll do i need to post the scripture again about being condemmed if u dont beleive??just let me know,,it mite help u out of your legalism that stands before u and god.U place your salvation on works {baptism}
uwique 3 weeks ago
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@uwique "do i need to post the scripture again about being condemmed if u dont beleive?" Shucks, I can do that: "Without faith it is impossible to please God." How'd that for you? What you NEED to do is prove your absurd explanation - copied from some website, I might add. You've asserted that Mark 16: 16 is the ONLY sentence in the English language, past or present, that grammatically supports your views. I asked for another one. Grammatically, Mark 16: 16 is against you.
lllannallll 3 weeks ago
@uwique Just to remind you: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned." You plainly stated that Mark 16 does NOT teach the necessity of baptism. I asked for ONE - not five - ONE sentence in English - just make one up - in which "He that (a) and (b) shall receive $1,000, but he that does not (a) shall not." Show us ONE widdle sentence in which the (b) would not be as necessary as the (a). C'mon now!
lllannallll 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16). If we look at this verse closely, we see that it is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll Clearly, the determining factor regarding whether one is saved or condemned is whether or not he believes. In interpreting this passage correctly, it is important to realize that while it tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they are saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would have had to be included, that statement .
uwique 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll being: “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll the sinners prayer is a prayer of repentancei f u repent of your sins,god is just to forgive u..now tell me if there is somthing wrong with what i just said??of couse theres not.its a sinner asking for gods forgiveness,thats why its called the sinners prayer,take your legalism blinds off your eyes.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@lllannallll he that beleiveth??whats that mean to u?beleveth,to put trust in have confidence in,that means u repented already,it would be useless to put trust in have confidence in god,if he hasnt already forgiven u,,it would be in vain.
uwique 3 weeks ago
@uwique "beleveth,to put trust in have confidence in,that means u repented already" Huh? You've told that God would EXTEND the life of a BELIEVER so he COULD repent. Now you're saying if he believes, he's ALREADY repented. Land's sakes, which comes first in your theology? Belief/faith or repentance? You flip-flop around and say belief comes first, then they're just a BLUR, then repentance comes first.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll if god knows the person is gonna repent,sure his life willbe extended,if he repents of sin,hes a beleiver in christ,,anyone who doesnt repent to god,is an unbeleiver,,now u look up the definition of a "beleiver".you know,,all someone has to do is confess their sins to christ,and they will be saved..there u go again,,making a mountain out of a molehill.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "thats why its called the sinners prayer" <-- I could care less what someone "calls" it - there's NO mention or example of such a thing under the New Testament. Tell ya what, you've done so well with Mark 16, why don't you find an example of the "sinner's prayer" at ANY point since the death of Christ. You can't do that either. It's not there.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll oh really??if you confess your sins by repenting to christ,,so that not a sinner praying to god to forgive him of his sins??so tell me now,,wheres the sin in calling it the sinners prayer??try to keep your legalism out of it ok??i know its gonna be hard though for ya.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "if you confess your sins by repenting to christ" IF? If WHO? A saved person or an unsaved one? If you start at the cross of Christ - when the New Covenant was put into place - there NEVER WAS a case of an unsaved person PRAYING for forgiveness of ANYTHING. You can't find it - yet you teach it!
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll ok..an example,,a sinner repenting to god,,its a sinner praying to god for the remission of sins,,wheres the harm there mr legalism?
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "a sinner repenting to god,,its a sinner praying to god for the remission of sins" LOL No, it's not. One repents of his sins FIRST. He's not "repenting" when he's "praying." He has ALREADY repented. I repeat: since the cross of Christ, you can't find any COMMAND - any EXAMPLE - of an unsaved person praying for ANYTHING. What's the harm? It's made-up, for one thing!
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll u have no understanding of scripture,,yu tell me that the christian has to confess his sins,but the sinner doesnt have to repent to nobody??sir,,,your insane!!
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@lllannallll I can't help it if Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved", "beleiveth",,how does the beleiveth save u?the scripture says if u beleiveth ur savedNow you're saying if he believes, he's ALREADY repented. Land's sakes,,doesnt the scripture say it?
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll repentance is a turning away from,,if hes prayin to no one,how does god know to forgive him?LOL
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll You don't "pray to God for repentance" in the first place. Ok, your turn.really??who do u ask then?,,the devil?LOL
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "who do u ask then?,,the devil?LOL'" NO ONE! An unsaved person prays to NO ONE for forgiveness! I've asked you to cite a case.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
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@lllannallll An unsaved person prays to NO ONE for forgiveness! I've asked you to cite a case.well.simple pimple..being that its god u sin against shouldnt he be the 1 that forgives u?LOL..no wonder your church is not saved.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll ohmy!!how do u get forgiveness then if you dont confess?1st john 1;9,,if we confess our sins,he is just to forgive us,,who are u confessing to?..god,,being that its god u sin against,,are u for real??,,theres no one in your church that is saved.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "if we confess our sins,he is just to forgive us" <-- the "we" in that passage is people who are ALREADY SAVED, dummy. We are talking about what an unsaved person must DO in order to BECOME saved, and you quote a passage about people who are already Christians confessing sins?
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll
1.
to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc. (often followed by of ):
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll "repent"to turn away from sin,to be SORRY for what youve done,,who do u sin against??and who do u repent to??gee,,thats hard,,isnt it god?LOL
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique ""repent"to turn away from sin,to be SORRY for what youve done" <-- No, it doesn't. I wish you'd define ONE word correctly. "Godly sorrow worketh repentance." You have sorrow FIRST, then you repent. Godly sorrow is NOT repentance.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll oh my gosh!!,,that is the definition of repent,,where do u get your info from?u are out in left feild pal,,so your tellin me that u dont have to ask god for forgiveness?LOL
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@lllannallll I wish you'd define ONE word correctly. "Godly sorrow worketh repentance."you mean define it to fit your doctrine??thats exactly what u mean.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll i guess the dictionary is not good either for defining?LOL,,thats when u repent to god,,u have sorrow that u have sinned,now your telling him yur turning away from it .
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll “we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7).wow look!..another grace scripture,
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll A soldier who believes but is killed in battle before he can be baptized would perish,,according to your doctrine,,this statement would be true,accordin to bible,its false
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll why dont u look up the def of repentance,,is the dictionary wrong?lol
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "why dont u look up the def of repentance" I did. I told you to take a Thayer's or Liddell/Scott, the standard Greek dictionaries, and "copy and paste" the definition. You won't do that either.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
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@lllannallll why dont u look up the def of repentance" I did. I told you to take a Thayer's or Liddell/Scott, the standard Greek dictionaries, and "copy and paste" the definition.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll You TELL people to DO IT, yet you can't even FIND it in the Bible. You can't do #1 or #2.
really??we tell people that they need to repent?your right!!
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "we tell people that they need to repent?your right!!" Yep, and then you misdefine it and try to tell em that praying is repentance.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll praying is repentance??no,confession of sin is repentance,,the action your doin is praying,,do u like the word "asking" better?LOL
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll no..we tell them to repent,just like the bible does..when your sayin your sorry to god,the action your doin is praying,,u have a real good way of twisting things,u make a better lawyer than a christian..lol
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "no..we tell them to repent,just like the bible does..when your sayin your sorry to god" Repentance is NOT "saying your sorry to God." Man, would you look it up in Thayer's Online?
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll i already looked it up,,and guess what,i cut and pasted it to u, udidnt say much about that did ya?LOL,,it says to have sorrow for,,u want me to paste it?or bettet yet,,do u want where i got it from?
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll i think it would be beneficial for u to start using scripture.Throughout the Bible, in every dispensation, people have been saved without being baptized. Every believer in the Old Testament (e.g. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon) was saved but not baptized. The thief on the cross was saved but not baptized. Cornelius was saved before he was baptized (Acts 10:44-46).
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique You TELL people to DO IT, yet you can't even FIND it in the Bible. You can't do #1 or #2.,,u right,,we preach the gospel,not legalism,,your doctrine puts people in bondage.
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "u right,,we preach the gospel,not legalism,,your doctrine puts people in bondage." You preach NEITHER. You lie to people.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@uwique you tell people theyre goin to hell without being baptised,and there is no clear scripture that says it,,,not 1,,,we can go tit for tat all day on this huh?
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "we can go tit for tat all day on this huh?" No need. "He that shows up for class and passes shall receive $1,000, but he who does not show up shall not" Well? If the kid doesn't pass, do you think he has any right whatsoever to expect the $1G? That .. THAT .. oughta be enough to cause you to stop and think. Thus, baptism stands squared between a "believer" and the "shall be saved." Your "slant" on Mark 16: 16 was obviously wrong.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll he who shows up for class and passes,will be saved...but he who doesnt show up,will be condemmed..if the kid doesnt show up,hes condemmed..if the kid does not pass??,,it says if the kid doesnt show up,hes condemmed,cant pass somting if u dont show up for it,so now he didnt show up,so hes condemmed.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "it says if the kid doesnt show up,hes condemmed,cant pass somting if u dont show up for it" <-- Yeah, so make the application: tell us what happens if the kid DOES show up but DOES NOT PASS. Does he get the $1,000 or not?
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll rweally?what if the person beleives on the lord jesus christ..is he saved like the bible and many other scriptures say so?,,no matter how u look at it,the EMPHAISIS is on beleif.if being saved by grace is true,then no water needed,u make the bible have contradictions.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll Assuming that verse 16 was included in Mark’s original manuscript, does it teach that baptism is required for salvation? The simple answer is: No, it does not. In fact, when one carefully examines this verse, it becomes clear that in order to make this it teach that baptism is required for salvation, one must go beyond what the verse actually says.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll What this verse does teach is that belief is necessary for salvation, which is consistent with all other verses in the Bible that deal with salvation, especially the countless verses where only belief or faith is mentioned (e.g. John 3:18; John 5:24; John 12:44; John 20:31; 1 John 5:13).
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll In interpreting this passage correctly, it is important to realize that while it tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they are saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would have had to be included, that statement being: “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.”
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll Those who try to use Mark 16:16 to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation commit a common but serious logical fallacy that is sometimes called the Negative Inference Fallacy. This fallacy can be stated as follows: “If a statement is true, we cannot assume that all negations (or opposites) of that statement are also true.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll In other words, just because Mark 16:16 says that “he who believes and is baptized will be saved” it does not mean that if one believes, but is not baptized, he will not be saved. Yet, this is exactly what is assumed by those that look to this verse to support the view that baptism is necessary for salvation.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll Another example we might consider would be this statement: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, those that do not believe are condemned." Again take note of the similar structure as is found in Mark 16:16, and yet once again, it becomes clear that to say that only believers who live in Kansas are saved is an illogical and false assumption. While Mark 16:16 does tell us something about believers who have been baptized (they will be saved),
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll Another example we might consider would be this statement: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, those that do not believe are condemned." Again take note of the similar structure as is found in Mark 16:16, and yet once again, it becomes clear that to say that only believers who live in Kansas are saved is an illogical and false assumption. While Mark 16:16 does tell us something about believers who have been baptized (they will be saved),
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "Oh, answer the question: "tell us what happens if the kid DOES show up but DOES NOT PASS. Does he get the $1,000 or not?" Does he or not?" Oh, I could care less about your copied-and-pasted errors. Truth is: u KNOW the kid has NO RIGHT AT ALL to expect the $1,000 if he doesn't pass, but I wanna force you to SAY it. And, so far, you simply avoid it.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@uwique ""Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, those that do not believe are condemned." Wanna try that one without the "will be saved", and see how it goes for you? Here: "Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will receive $1,000" How's that. Do you think a person living in Texas has any right to the $1,000? Of course not.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll again, it says nothing about believers who have not been baptized.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "again, it says nothing about believers who have not been baptized." Sure it does: How's this if you wanna take a look at an unbaptized believer? "He that believeth and is baptized shall receive $1,000 .... " Will that work for you? So theoretically a person could NEVER be baptized and STILL can expect the $1,000? I dont much think so.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll It is important to realize that just because Mark 16:16 has two conditions relating to salvation (believe and be baptized), it does not mean that both conditions are requirements for being saved. This would also hold true if a third condition was added. Whether it is two or three conditions in a statement about salvation, the fact is, that does not mean that all three conditions must be met for one to be saved.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "It is important to realize that just because Mark 16:16 has two conditions relating to salvation (believe and be baptized), it does not mean that both conditions are requirements for being saved." LOL OK. Try this: "He that believes and repents shall be saved, but he who disbelieveth shall be condemned." Is THAT a true sentence? Of course it is. And it means both conditions are necessary, of course.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll well..u see,,tihs is why my denom and your denom dont agree,cuase of interpretation,so that only means 1 thing,we will have to got other scriptures to see if water baptism is essential for salvation ok?
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "so that only means 1 thing,we will have to got other scriptures to see if water baptism is essential for salvation ok?" Well, no .. not really. Mark 16: 16 ALONE teaches it. But fine .. go to another scripture on baptism, if you wanna see what it's for. Which one you want? Act 2: 38, Acts 22: 16, or some other.. You suggested it, so pick another one on baptism. Mark 16: 16 sure didn't help ya much.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll no,mark 16;16 says nothing of baptism for salvation,i dont see it,and it doesnt mean itwe will goto other scripture to prove it wrong,,and it will be easy.
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "no,mark 16;16 says nothing of baptism for salvation,i dont see it,and it doesnt mean it" Well, i'll tell you one thing: I bet your "broke" from giving parallel sentence by now, since every one of them disproves you. You STILL having told me whether a kid who flunks every test has any right to the $1G?
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@uwique "no,mark 16;16 says nothing of baptism for salvation" <--- oh, myyyyyyyyyy LMAO! "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved ... " Says nothing? And you say that with a straight face, when I've asked you plainly, "Does the kid who simply shows up have ANY RIGHT to expect the $1G?" And you won't answer.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll no..i told u before,if u beleive that baptism is essential for salvation,u will have contradictions
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll no..mark 16 DOES NOT teach it,therse no negative on not being baptised there.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll Throughout the Bible we see that at the point of faith or belief, a believer possesses all the promises and blessings of salvation (John 1:12; 3:16; 5:24; 6:47; 20:31; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31). When one believes, he has eternal life, does not come under judgment, and has passed from death into life (John 5:24), all before he/she is baptized.Try this again.
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "Throughout the Bible we see that at the point of faith or belief, a believer possesses all the promises and blessings of salvation (John 1:12)" Look @ the verse you quoted! "Believers 'have the right TO BECOME' children of God!" Plain and simple. Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ has that right - that liberty of action. Why quote that verse - it also is against you
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll to all who beleive in him became children of god,,exactly,,whats the problem?its sayin,once your saved,your a child of god,,how is that against me?LOL
uwique 2 weeks ago
@uwique "to all who beleive in him became children of god" <-- that's not what it says. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power TO BECOME the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." Now. IF ... IF ... one is a saved person at the point of belief, he would be THEN and THERE a child of God. But the verse simply says that a believer has the RIGHT .. the LIBERTY .. the POWER to become a son of God of child of God.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll again,,u twist and turn,when yur saved,your a child of god..
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "again,,u twist and turn,when yur saved,your a child of god.." Why, i didn't twist. Certainly when you're saved, you're a child of God. And John 1: 12 says plainly that a believer .. what? ... IS a child of God? Well, not hardly. But a believer, at that point, certainly has the right to BECOME a child of God. Twisting? That's exactly what it says.
lllannallll 2 weeks ago
@lllannallll john1;2..yet to all who received him,to those who beleived in his name,he GAVE the right to become children of god,oh my gosh!,,what is your problem?LOL
uwique 2 weeks ago
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@uwique "yet to all who received him,to those who beleived in his name,he GAVE the right to become children of