This Week in Space 8 - February 26, 2010

[chernobylFarms]

...like the commercial says, we've been to the moon and learned it wasn't made of cheese. And we haven't been back since.

the space stateion or an equivalent is essential to launching a mothercraft, carrying extra fuel and resources, over to Mars's orbit.

[ioanpena]

The ideea of this webcast is very good but we need more information and facts presented as they are and less nerdy filtred information becouse not everyone who is interested in space is a nerd. Why american politicians think that they have to explain everything to the rest of the world like they think we are monkeys. Mr. Bolden what moon are you talking about ? Earth's moon ? I thought that the moon was the goal of J.F.K. ; anyway i wish to congratulate you for your new job at McDonald's !!!

[Iamnotaparakeet]

I think the commercialization of space is a good thing, especially if tourism is a possible option. Making it safe is certainly necessary though, as the high risk may be discouraging to most potential customers. NASA seems to not want to give up their control over the industry, and that seems to be a frustration to at least the Space-X CEO. It's sort of like the movie Astronaut Farmer. I think the commercialization of space will be good, unless Wal-Mart gets involved.

[GETitYAdig42]

i like this show, though it would be more enjoyable in HD.

[George6736]

Thanks for the ride ...

[PolyNasaTeam]

"So it is not surprising that some would have us stay where we are a little longer to rest, to wait. But this city of Houston, this state of Texas, this country of the United States was not built by those who waited and rested and wished to look behind them. This country was conquered by those who moved forward--and so will space. "- President John F Kennedy

[sbergman27]

Vitter asks what these changes have to do with anything laid out by the Augustine commission. He wants to be pointed to a page. Apparently, literacy is not a requirement for the post of Republican Senator for Louisiana these days, since the first two sentences in the summary report are these:

"The U.S. human spaceflight program appears to be on an unsustainable trajectory. It is perpetuating the perilous practice of pursuing goals that do not match allocated resources."

[lobosolo0333]

Bolden stated that he, even with the entire federal budget, he couldn't put a man on Mars ... Well, I'm confident that I could with a lot left over. He continues to parrot the line that we just don't have the "capabilities in our kitbag" to go to Mars.

Simply not true! Zubrin has shown us how to do it with current technology in the Mars Direct Program. Bonin has shown us that we can do it economically with medium lift vehicles ... in other words, we don't need to wait for HLVs.

[ubuibiok]

What is not being said outload to the public is that Orion will cost MORE THEN was estamated.

All most all the companies that built APOLLO are gone, out of business and the methods used by trial and error to build the parts to work, there records are gone as well...It might be cheaper and faster to build more shuttles.

[lobosolo0333]

The whole Constellation program was costing more than estimated.

It's an urban myth that the Saturn/Apollo records are lost. They're safely in NASA's hands. Even if they weren't, we could back-engineer the static displays and update them modern components ... like powerful computers.

It doesn't matter if the companies that built them aren't around. If a company can build a shuttle engine, it can build a Saturn engine.

The Shuttle can't go beyond LEO.

[ubuibiok]

NASA has a team running around the country picking threw Bone Yards for missing Staic display parts...the records ARE NOT in NASA hands.The Blueprints are, but not the Methods of mfr. . The Team has reported that some of those records are critical inorder to determine why some of the old Saturn parts were built the way they were ! The Budget to Reverse-engineer is small and there speending most of there time looking for the parts..

[lobosolo0333]

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE SATURN V PLANS?

Despite a widespread belief to the contrary, the Saturn V blueprints have not been lost. They are kept at Marshall Space Flight Center on microfilm. The Federal "Archives in East Point, GA also has 2,900 cubic feet of Saturn documents. Rocketdyne has in its archives dozens of volumes from its Knowledge Retention Program. This effort was initiated in the late '60s to document every facet of F-1 and J-2 engine production to assist in any future re-start.

[ubuibiok]

@lobosolo0333...."What happened to the technical record of NASA's Apollo Space Program? Well... nothing. There was no record, due to the social context of a "Space Race" against USSR. Now since NASA was told to go to the moon again (the Project Constellation program), it has to look in junkyards - and on eBay - to find out how Saturn V rockets used to work.". Guess what, NASA is also looking for old Shuttle parts as well.

[lobosolo0333]

The upper stage of the Constellation is a souped up J-2. The had the plans for it! Several AIAA papers delivered in recent years discuss reviving the Saturn V. For example, AIAA paper 92-1546, "Launch Vehicles for the Space Exploration Initiative". This paper concluded that a revived Saturn V was actually cheaper than the NLS vehicle.

[lobosolo0333]

An overview of the infrastructure still available to support production of a 1990s Saturn V and how that vehicle might be used to support First Lunar Outpost missions can be found in the December 1993 issue of _Spaceflight_, published by the British Interplanetary Society."

[ubuibiok]

@lobosolo0333 , Keep on Dreaming , go read The New York Times-"For Old Parts, NASA Boldly Goes . . . on eBay" and the. PBS ORG. What is a "space junkyard?" VIDEOS HERE ON YouTube....

[lobosolo0333]

Paul Shawcross from NASA's Office of Inspector General states that the Saturn blueprints are on microfiche.

Even then, it would be better to have the blueprints AND an actual piece of equipment. Then you can update it or just take to a manufacturer and have them make it for you. That is why there are people out looking for actual parts.

[LilHACKERR]

Lol N.A.S.A

[CessnaDriver2]

The Garver/Obama plan is going down, There is no support in congress for it.

Thank God! Nobody is against more commercial, that is good. But parallel paths are critical. Stick with NASA, fix what isn't working and press on.

There is no replacement for HSF at NASA and goals are critical.

Not nebulous half plans and walking away from a 9 billion dollar investment.

Nor do the American people, through congress, want it replaced. That is clear.

[valcan321]

That is the same attitude that landed us with the shuttle and its 50,000 people per launch and 1 billion dollar price tage every launch.

The ares program had alot of good parts to it but over all it was failing. Far to much burocracy and Nasa typical red tape.

Establishing the industry to make space flight faster and cheaper is more important than a moonbase which wont happen unless we have those things.

The senators and congress men have turned the shuttle into a jobs program.

[CessnaDriver2]

Funny, I think dispersing the already thin funds to the four winds of a nascent and utterly unproven commerical HSF effort is a jobs program, and most will likely fail in the process. Only one would probably succeed and only at low earth orbit.

No, parallel path is best.

Keep a goal driven HSF program at NASA.

[valcan321]

Those funds arent just going to comercial space. There going to the development and utilization of technology that can get us to Mars in a month or less. Not the 6 months that was planned with constellation.

I agree a goal driven human spaceflight program needs to be at nasa. But why does nasa need to be doing something like taking people from the surface to LEO? There are plenty of companies that can do that (all of the spaceshuttle etc...contractors PRIVATE space companies.

(cont.)

[valcan321]

Ares V was a good idea but i see NO reason to keep ares I. SpaceX or even a man rated Atlas IV can easily lift the same amount.

We need a Super heavy like Ares V i dont see that coming into the private theater anytime soon maybe in the next 15 to 20 yrs if all goes right but not soon.

Nasa is great at research and pushing the edge of technology and people. To use them as a taxi to LEO and back is just a waste of talent and money.

Nasa needs to consentrate on Space industry and mars.

[CessnaDriver2]

Rolling all the dice on propulsion unicorns is foolish.

I am all for R&D, but not at the expense of HSF at NASA and it's important spaceflight goals for America with what we know works today.

If they come up with something amazing, great! we can slap Orion on it, but we still NEED to build those crewed craft and NASA is the best place to keep it focused.

[valcan321]

VASIMR isnt a unicorn. Its being carried to the ISS soon to do station keeping. It will save money because it only uses 5% of the fuel a traditional system uses.

[moneyman10k]

bolden's response to vitter was poor and ill prepared

but vitter's suggestion that the new plan doesn't resemble the augustine report is purely ignorant

[CessnaDriver2]

And I support pushing VASIMR technology. Very much so. But only in parallel developmnet with what NASA was accomplishing. Not in lieu of.

We can transition over when it's ready. Not before. And not at the expense of Orion and building our BEO capable vehicles.

[moneyman10k]

Sorry there is no money for so much in parallel. You're missing the whole point. There isn't enough money to do what you want.

[CessnaDriver2]

Sorry, there is enough money, your missing the point. It's about properly funding these endeavors. That is congress and both Bush and Obama's fault. Fund these things properly, they will happen faster and on time.

Ausgustine commission already covered that. NASA funding has diminished steadly over the years. Time to fix that, and now is the time to draw attention to it. A good increase will hardly be noticed in the big federal budget spending picture.

[moneyman10k]

People don't want to pay more for NASA, that is all there is to it...

[CessnaDriver2]

The general populace is ingorant actually of how little a percentage of federal discretionary spending NASA gets.

Polls have shown this.

Showing them a simple graph like that at federalbudget web site is all it takes to educate. Most think it's some huge percentage. it's tiny.

It's congress and presidents that are stingy with NASA! They want a political payoff during their terms. The public isn't going to blink if NASA funding went up a few billion a year.

[moneyman10k]

I wish you luck if you're really trying to convince congress to give NASA a few billion more per year.

[hyhhy]

Thanks for the reporting.

Regarding the potential for commercial profit in human spaceflight, I have thought up this idea that combining human spaceflight with some kind of "reality TV" concept might make a lot of people willing to pay money to the space industry just to be able to watch other people fly and live and work in space. Although this idea might be a bit too science fictiony for the present.

[DukeNukemIsHere3]

great episode

[quantumG]

Hoot Gibson's implication that Falcon 9/Dragon is just a cargo launcher being upgraded to carry crew is entirely backwards. Falcon 9 is a man-rated vehicle that will be proven by flying cargo.

Frank Culbertson of Orbital Sciences's appearance on the show to back up Hoot's comments is shady and disturbing. It is certainly the case that Orbital Science's cargo vehicle was not designed to carry crew to orbit.. they didn't think COTS-D would ever be funded, and now they're behind in the race.

[obaeyens]

@quantumG

At this moment we cannot know. It is just guessing if it is man rated or not. Let's first see some launches and see the results.

[quantumG]

No.. there are human rating standards and so far SpaceX has met all of them. But don't worry, NASA is guaranteed to invent new standards specifically so SpaceX won't have already met them.. in fact, they're already playing the "you haven't met the standard we haven't defined yet" game.