Jesus is not michael the archangel, stop lying watchtower..... Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
A Catholic gives title of a saint to those who do not deserve such title, just like you do to me, who, to you, is a misguided sheep. When’d I ever say that I know you entirely, I said I know what would be there beneath your superficial mask of tough acts. No, I just use the Google search. Get with the times, before you accuse someone of being your personal stalker. Still, this doesn’t change the fact that you contradict yourself.
@MrKEvangelist How would you be limited? You have everything you need here, at Youtube. The only difference between Youtube and e-mail engine would be that the messages would be sent to each post more quickly on Youtube than any e-mail engine.
"Look! There will yet be three KINGS standing up for Persia.."
Until Alexander the Great: "“And a mighty KING will certainly stand up and rule with extensive dominion and do according to his will. And when he will have stood up, his kingdom will be broken and be divided..."
Augustus: "And there must stand up in his position one who is causing an exactor to pass through the splendid kingdom."
Tiberius: "And there must stand up in his position one who is to be despised."
@mayuhavepeace You keep mention Alexander, but what good would it do, if other key pieces of info. you have there cannot be gathered for the fact that they lack evidence? Also, please do answer the question that I've asked you. Do they have Holy Spirit or not?
If they come to an erroneous conclusion that cannot even get the most basic idea of Jehovah being a *ONE* God?
I think you know that answer already.
Satan must be pleased. The Trinity means they cannot get to know the Father since they confuse him with His Son, and the won't get to know the Son either since they confuse him with the Father. Satan must find that to be delicious.
And are you claiming that Holy Spirit lead YOU to believe in the Trinity?
@mayuhavepeace So, you say. Since it'd be the job of Holy Spirit to guide the misguided one, I will give you my first and probably last warning. If you do not believe in Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, to have come in the flesh and always was God, then you will not be able to inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus says in the revelation, "I am Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and End."
@mayuhavepeace That's because you are trying to assert the human logic that a being cannot be composed of three different and distinct persons. God is different from man. You believe an angel to be your savior, where as I believe Jesus Christ, both 100% God and 100% man, the Son of God, the only begotten Son of God, to be my sole Lord and Savior.
@mayuhavepeace What voice? I said I believe Holy Spirit led me to my belief in God, not that there's a voice in my head. If you are so cocky as to throw your curses at me, then do you believe you are being led by Holy Spirit? You fear God. You fear that you may be wrong and perhaps you yourself is in a dangerous place, not me. That's why you fail to give me direct answers.
@mayuhavepeace Yes, I very much believe that it is Holy Spirit that lead me to believe in our Triune God. Do you believe that it is not Holy Spirit, but an evil spirit that's leading me to believe in our Triune God? I fear no more, as I've given you my warning and if you turn from Jesus now, it would be your choice and I would probably be spared from getting your blood on my hands.
@MrKEvangelist Once again, Michael is like a webcam used during live chat between two individuals. Thus, God is able to speak through Michael's mouth whenever he feels like doing so.
@MrKEvangelist Once again, Michael is like a webcam used during live chat between two individuals. Thus, God is able to speak through Michael's mouth whenever he feels like doing so.
@revoltingtomato i have spoken with you since yesterday and not once i have told you anything about not entering because you don't believe what i believe, and i am not a JW and the study i did is strictly bible, so instead of judging me contact me let us settle this once and for all, you see if what i say have any truth in it and i will see if what you have to say, and i believe your belief about Jesus is true but you just don't believe Michael is one of his names.
@MrKEvangelist Again, I can quote you as many times as I want and I've even snapped a photoshot of your comments, so deletion of your comments will not help you. You clearly denied Jesus' status as human and God. You are now relating his status as "Chief messenger" to his divinity, but mere capitalization of the term "Chief" isn't going to get you anywhere in convincing someone.
"However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed... I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed."
What did Paul mean when he said "EVEN IF WE"...?
Think about that carefully, what is *WE* here - and if you cannot answer that, WOW!
@mayuhavepeace Who gives you the right to bring Paul here? Do you honestly believe that shielding yourself with a random, believable verse from the Bible will save you? Are you going to repeat your actions when you stand before Jesus to be judged?
@mayuhavepeace A prophecy that an archangel Michael will cast devil down to the earth, and Jesus will come afterwards to finish the job. I don't see any problem in this, mind you. Let me ask you this, do you then believe that any being who believes in the notion of Trinity dwells in a dangerous place? If so, then you must believe that they lack Holy Spirit, for why would Holy Spirit guide them to such dangerous place?
@MrKEvangelist What does denomination has to do with anything here? Yes, the term, "arch," simply means chief and the Bible tells us that there are more than one chief princes out there.
@revoltingtomato that word "one" in the kjv and nkjv is one of the poor interpretation on that verse that one could mean one and it could also be first, here is Young's Literal Translation
'And the head of the kingdom of Persia is standing over-against me twenty and one days, and lo, Michael, first of the chief heads, hath come in to help me, and I have remained there near the kings of Persia; and we no Satan was refer to as the prince of this world,so in a very real sense he is a chief prince.
@MrKEvangelist Are we on the same page here, or are you just talking nonsense? Despite your rants about wrong translations, both Young's Literal Translation as well as KJV versions state that there is more than one chief princes in existence. This removes the possibility of Michael being Jesus, as Jesus is said to be the only begotten Son of God.
@revoltingtomato My friend Michael is First of the chief princes, witch means he is highest of the highest, this text is just another reference to preeminence just like col 1:15 and onward he is the first born of the dead, the head of the church, am sure that you know that the angels are called the sons of God, we are also called sons of God, and Christ has promised us to rule with him as prince and priests......my friend Satan is the Chief prince of this world so yes there are more that 1.
@MrKEvangelist Yeah, as you say here, Michael is the first of the chief princes, but no where does it say in the Bible that Jesus is part of that group. Being the first as in Michael has been created before other chief princes, where as Jesus is the firstborn over all creation. Any being that's been picked up by God essentially becomes a part of sons of God, where as Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
@revoltingtomato Ok well my question to you is this, how many archangels are there? and ?# 2 how do you explain angel worship, because no angel would accept worship, eg(see Revelation 19:10; 22:8, 9) so who was the angel that appeared to Moses in the burning bush? next message i will give you some examples, but i need the ans to those question.
@MrKEvangelist That isn't for us to know, as the number of archangels in heaven would be irrelevant answer for our faith in God. At that time, Michael was not only delivering the message of God, but he was acting as the mouth piece of God. Of course, Michael's level was higher than that of any other prophets, as God was actually speaking through the mouth of that archangel. So, for Joshua, it would've been an experience that equals live chat with God.
@revoltingtomato my friend there is only one Archangel and the word is only found 2 times in scripture jude 9 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16. and its the voice of the Archangel that raise the dead no created being has life in themselves, jh 5:28 say it the voice of the son of man that raise the dead Dan 10 21 says Mic is the ruler of Gods people and and many other places in the bible Jesus is the ruler of Gods people so how many rulers are there?
@MrKEvangelist The Bible says otherwise. "because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first" 1 Thessalonians 4:16
Since there is only one known archangel in the Bible, Judas was referring to the one whom he knew, Michael. You do not foreshadow a number of others in a specific group, when you are exemplifying a figure. It's the basic rule of the literature.
@MrKEvangelist Jews think of Michael as their protector or a guardian angel, not a ruler. If you were to bring that notion to any group of Jews, you'd be shunned.
@MrKEvangelist Joshua, therefore, was enabled to worship God through Michael. Why would you need me to identify the angel that appeared to Moses in teh burning bush?
@revoltingtomato did you check out the text in revelation? my friend God said that he will not Give his Glory to another, so if this angel in Zac in the LORD then he is not a created being but GOD in this sense Christ is the messenger of the the Trinity or the angel of the LORD same meaning in the bible an angel is referred to as a spirit being witch is know by all, also humans are called angels in the bible, likewise deity is also referred to as an angel, all it means is messenger.
@MrKEvangelist When you talk to someone on the phone, does that mean you are talking to the phone or the person whom you are making a phone call to? If you make a kiss sign to your lover in a live chat, does that mean you are sending that kiss to your web cam or your lover? Think about that.
@MrKEvangelist Archangel means the chief messenger. Your regular angel can only speak what he has heard from God, where as an archangel can allow a conversation between God and another being to happen.
@revoltingtomato check out Heb 1 vs 1 there are only 3 angels name mention in the bible Lucifer Gabriel and Michael who is not a created being but creator of the angels, it is Christ war name, just as he has many other names I AM Adodai Prince of Peace ect.... and the only reason why Gabriel is named is because he now holds the position that Satan once held witch is covering cherub witch is the highest position of the angels.
@MrKEvangelist Those are nicely thought out ideas, but they are only human thoughts at their best. There's no mentioning of Gabriel's promotion in the Bible and Gabriel certainly was of no match for Satan. Michael was only able to snatch a win from Satan in that particular verbal warfare, thanks to God's intervention. Prince of Peace is a title given to solely Jesus and not Michael.
@revoltingtomato the war has always been Christ and Satan, on earth it has been Christ in heaven it was Christ and Satan, Mic and the Dragon and reason why Gabriel could not defeat Satan is because not even the strongest angel is a march for sin, only God can deal with it that is why the death of the highest could not have paid for the sinners only an infinite being could have done it, Satan is the Father of sin And Jesus is the God on righteousness.
@MrKEvangelist There is no war in heaven nor earth. It's the fallen angel's inability to manage his temper that's allowing this to happen. For God is so merciful, he is letting Satan to cause destruction on the earth, till due time. Jesus once said he saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Upon God's command, Satan becomes powerless and that's one of the end result of his rebellion.
@MrKEvangelist Michael failed to defeat the serpent by himself, so he had no choice but to ask God to intervene on his behalf, where as Jesus, even in his weakened and lower than angels state, overwhelmed Satan in a verbal warfare. See the difference? God could crush the snake anytime.
@revoltingtomato dan 12:1 Michael is the prince that stands for Gods people in the last day, and the bible clearly states that is Jesus that stands for his people in many other places, friend you need to compere scripture with scripture nits like a puzzle u need to put all the parts together, hey man, if you want to talk more you can email me your msn or skype info maybe we can video chat of something (childoftheking777@hotmail.com)
@MrKEvangelist Where does he say that? And there's also the clear difference in both the power and authority between Michael and Jesus. Explain to me how does Jesus, in his weakened form, overwhelms Satan, when he could not do so in his supposedly more powerful angelic state?
@revoltingtomato Friend you are missing the point, read dan chapter 10 properly and check out the choice of words the the writer use, and where in the bible was Michael defeated by the devil? no where you will find that, and for the record Jesus defeated Satan with the word of God and not because he was God you and i can do the same, he over came as a man, the reason why he took our nature is because as God he could not be tempted and he could not die.
@MrKEvangelist Let's not twist the words here. I never did say that Michael was defeated by the devil, but that he couldn't manage to defeat him on his own. He needed God to defeat the devil for him in that particular verbal warfare, where as Jesus did not. Again, if Jesus really was Michael like you say, then why would he suddenly be capable of overwhelming the foe, whom he previously could not defeat as an angel, in his comparably weaker form?
@revoltingtomato my friend The same God of the old tess is the same God of the New, the bible say that no man hath seen God at anytime,but his son has declared him, so if nobody has seen the Father at any time then all these old tess siting of God must be the same Jesus The Angel of the covenant, the Captain of the Lords host witch is the same as Archangel, Christ role in the trinity is the mouth peace fo God he is the Word, the communicator of God, the Messenger of the God head
@MrKEvangelist Do you recognize the fact that you talk like one of those people from Islam or Muslim religions? Jesus was not merely a prophet of the LORD, he even states in the revelation, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and end," just like our God would.
@revoltingtomat is ether you can't read or you are hard of understanding, because i if you read what i said you will see clearly that in no way i am saying Jesus is a Prophet, what am saying is that as the Word of God Jh 1:1 he communicates the messages of the God head, and when i say God head i mean trinity, he is God thoughts become audible the trinity is three distinct persons with one purpose, witch is the salvation of man, God is not a wild God he is a God of order.
@MrKEvangelist "My Friend Jesus over came as a man and not God because if it was possible for him to save us as a spirit being he would have done so, because it was impossible for God to fail and 2 die as a spirit he took our nature" I've quoted your words again and again. You denied Jesus' divinity and that's all there's to it. Here, you were saying that Jesus came as a man, but not as God.
@revoltingtomato So all am saying is because he is the Word of God jh 1:1 from sense Adam and Eve he has been speaking to us, from the Angel of the Lord who spoke to Moses to the captain of the Lords host who spoke to Joshua, and i think you should really read Zac ch 3 ans see that this person speaking to Joshua could in no wise be an angel but God, because he will not give his glory to another, and be cause Jesus is God it is his own glory, do your research bro.
@MrKEvangelist Again, an angel means messenger, and an archangel is a term that's used to describe a chief messenger. An angel is like an e-mail transporter of God, where as an archangel would be a personal phone or a webcam of God. If you talk to someone on the phone, does that mean you are talking to the phone and not the person himself? If you perform a live chat with someone, does that mean you are communicating with your own webcam? The answer should be obvious to you.
@revoltingtomato that is just another one of your human interpretation of Gods word my friend, if you have tree persons in the trinity and you have one coming to give a message to mankind is't he a messenger? and would't he be the Chief of all those who claim to be chiefs? there are many times in the bible where Jesus came to give a deliver a message in the new tess, in Rev to john on the isle of patmos, so who is he ? if he comes with a message then he is the Chief messenger cause he is God.
@MrKEvangelist How is my interpretation of Bible a human one, if you are the one trying to impose your human logic over the nature of God? According to your logic, then how can Holy Spirit be our counselor left by Jesus himself, if he was only meant to be a messenger? Also, he's come here to take the role of savior, i.e., make himself the sacrifice for our sins, not to leave us a message from God.
@revoltingtomato man talking to you is like talking to a little child, you are failing to see the simplicity of what am saying, so you keep doing you thing bro, you are one of those gays who are settle in your ways and no matter what another person say, even if it makes sense it wont make sense to you, so you keep good have a bless day :) Gods blessing on you and yours.
@MrKEvangelist Fine, since you are as cheap as to call me "gay" or "childish in nature," I will ask you this question to you as well, "Do you believe you are being led by Holy Spirit to believe what you believe?" I am happy to say that I believe I myself is being led to meet God and it is Holy Spirit that's giving me guidance in my faith in God. How about you? How sure are you of your own faith?
@revoltingtomato hey and i am sorry that should have been guys so am sorry, and yes i believe i am being led by the Spirit of God, and i am solid as a rock when it comes to my faith, i can give a ans as to why i believe in Christ so if i was to give a percentage i will say i am 200% sure out of 100, :)
@MrKEvangelist If you were truly immersed in debating with me, then you would have given me direct answers to my questions. When I gave you the fact my theory concerning Michael, you threw it away as though you've already given me an answer to that question, yet you haven't.
@revoltingtomato man i done tell you what to do already, if you want more info contact me what is the problem? are you afraid? i will give you my ans based on the bible but chatting on youtube is not cutting it.
@MrKEvangelist It's clear to me that you are out of things to say to me and are now throwing at me whatever you could grab from my comments such as, "human interpretations," "are you afraid?" And why would "chatting on youtube is not cutting it?"
@revoltingtomato because i am limited to write that why, and btw this topic is a very controversial one so it will take some steps to explain,......well if that is your conclusion then fine, but the invitation is still there any time you think you want to talk about this or any other topic i will be happy to do so, this kind of study take comparing scripture with scripture, it is no one to put two word and then you explain the whole thing.
@MrKEvangelist It is not a controversial one. Even an atheist historian on the street would admit the fact that, though a Mormon or a JW's tend to be nice, their way of asserting beliefs seem contradictory to what the Bible say. You share their beliefs, and despite the technicality that goes along with their beliefs, you accept claims from both sides.
@MrKEvangelist How would you be limited? You have everything you need here, at Youtube. The only difference between Youtube and e-mail engine would be that the messages would be sent to each post more quickly.
@revoltingtomato This is really my last message the invitation is there for you and another person who wants to hear what i have to say based on the word of God on this subject.
@MrKEvangelist No where does it say in the Bible that Michael would be the chief of the chief angels. He is being described to be one of chief messengers of God. You are throwing in random logic here, how does his supposed status as the chief messenger of God relate to his status as God?
@revoltingtomato if you check the old tess you will see that there are countless times where God is referred to as an angel, but that does not mean he is created of lesser, Jesus is called the son of man, does that take away the God part of him?
@revoltingtomato and i think you should really read what i say before making those silly remarks, have a great day friend, all praises to the Great God Jesus Christ.
@MrKEvangelist This will be my last warning to you, you fraud. If you lie and act falsely in the name of God, along with the false-prophet, you will not be spared from damnation, as you would fail to repent your sins.
@MrKEvangelist I am not judging you, but am giving you my second and last warning as a fellow human being, not as a fellow Christian for you worship an angel to be your Lord. This is so that I would avoid getting lectured for leaving you stranded with false knowledge.
@revoltingtomato i don't know where you get that from because i am not a angel worshiper, i worship the LORD but because you fail to get that angel thing out of your head you could never see that, and i think you are very much out of place to tell me what i believe is false, what i think you should do is humble yourself study the thing and see if there is any truth in it instead of judging.
@MrKEvangelist You are making a direct comparison between Jesus and Michael. Michael is not Jesus and Jesus was not an angel. You are thinking that he could be a messenger on a false impression. You are keep on reiterating yourself and claiming that I could not see the distinction between a being and a status of a being. Yet, you haven't even given me one straight answer out of all this.
@revoltingtomato this is why i told you to contact me trough email for me to give you a clearer explanation, i i gave you so many straight ans, bro, this conversation on youtube will go no where because it wont allow me to share the stuff on this subject, so if you really want a good explanation on this topic and you want me to ans all you questions and you want to teach me something i am will to hear what you have to say, but discussing this here is not getting anywhere.
@MrKEvangelist How does discussing this issue here is not going to get us any where? Again, you are expressing your cowerdice in your failed attempt to both buy you a time and a way to discreetly fool the eyes of others on the web. If I were to go with your plan, it would only mean that you could openly express your curses against me without any fears of exposing yourself to the public.
@revoltingtomato My friend you are doing noting but judging me, i have even study this topic with JW and we had a really nice study, the difference between me and the JW is they don't believe Jesus is God and i believe he is, so if you don't want to contact me, fine but stop coming up with your own conclusion about me because you don't know me.
@MrKEvangelist Wow, there you go. You say that you are not a JW, but you are clearly in a study-relationship with JW's. Yes, the difference between you and JW is that a JW deny Jesus' status as God for the fact that they believe he is Michael and that would mean that he is the firstborn of God's creation. You share that same belief with them, but you believe that Jesus is both an archangel and God at the same time.
@MrKEvangelist In other words, you are on neither side, for you follow non-existent ideas of JW, yet you accept claims from both side, which would make you a hypocrite at best.
@revoltingtomato leave the Judging to God and stop Judging me, bro, you need to watch yourself first because you kno nothing about me, and by the way that JW lady i was studying with is no longer a JW but a a practicing christian today thank to God.
@MrKEvangelist You have no basis for your claims. You've shown much of yourself by just talking to me; a liar, fornicator, false-prophet, and a false-believer. I don't just say this because you have different views with me on what the Bible say to us, but for the fact that you lack the ability to construct a valid argument. Again, I do not judge you for your beliefs. If I were to judge you, I would be sentencing you to be cast down in hell.
@revoltingtomato watch what you say about God children before you cast Judgment on yourself, AND who you you to say that i am a liar fornicator ect i hope you are a saint because those word are going to fall back on you.
@MrKEvangelist Wow, a saint. So, you are now confirming your status as half-baked Evangelist filled with some of Catholic, & JW beliefs from respective sites on the web. If you so dislike receiving criticism from me, then prove to me how your responses to my posts can be validated.
@revoltingtomato man do you even kno the meaning of words? you are seriously a child, check you bible dictionary for the meaning of saint, you are unbelievable man, very childish, i am done dude you win, i can talk with someone who is sooo hard of understanding, i am done if you want to talk about this like two big men like i told you, you kno what to do.
@MrKEvangelist The term, "saint," refers to any believer who is in Jesus Christ, thus you contradict yourself by telling me that I am not guided by Holy Spirit and is ignorant of what the Bible says, yet you hope for me to be a saint to be exempt from eternal damnation. How does this make sense? Now that you've been insulted for your lack of knowledge, you've shifted your strategy from pushing your beliefs blindedly to ignorant self-preserving of your beliefs.
@revoltingtomato since you are mr intelligent what does saint have to do with Catholic, it is a bible term also used to describe innocence, for your own info, and as far as i see, you is the only one who seem to know everything about me, who is half way across the world, you know i copy stuff from JW sites you know i am a fraud you know am a liar, you know am a fornicator, you know am a coward, you must be siting in my living room, or you MUST be God cause you know to much about me,
@revoltingtomato I think you even know more than my girl friend, lol and where did i say you were not guided by the Spirit, i never said that don't mistake me for yourself, you was the only person saying that, don't tie up your self.
@MrKEvangelist Your claims contained messages about me getting wrong ideas about God. This would mean that I am not guided by Holy Spirit, as Holy Spirit would not misguide anyone. This becomes another proof as to why you yourself is not sure of what you are writing on the web.
@MrKEvangelist Plus, aside from the stuff you've copied over from that JW site, you act as though you carry charcoals on your back and the steam's getting to your head. I mean, "i can talk with someone who is sooo hard of understanding," seriously? I'd say this would be your first experience of meeting a hard cookie in Christ like me and you are hesitant in drawing yourself back, for I've put a scratch over your pride.
@MrKEvangelist Subconscious? How does your nitpicking on your misinterpretation of one sentence I’ve given you relate to your subconscious? Again, stop it with your random-word picking.
@revoltingtomato dude it's over, this convo is not going to get you and i anywhere (shake-hand) to you, Keep trusting in the Lord and keep sharing the gospel with those around you, and i will do the same because he is coming soon, instead of arguing about weather Jesus is Michael let us preach Jesus to a dying world. the point is he came and died weather you believe he is Micheal or not that is not going to save you its the blood and a personal relationship with him, its over, you win. :)
@MrKEvangelist *refuses handshake* Why should I, a Christian, shake hands with the likes of you, who reject the gospel of our Lord and Savior? Like Paul said, a Christian should accurse the person who spreads gospel that’s not of ours to have that person return to Jesus.
@MrKEvangelist I have failed you. I have failed Lord. I have not succeeded in convincing you over. If there’s a chance that your soul may be endangered in being cast down to hell, then how can I, as a fellow human being, rest as though nothing happened? I know who you are, a Seventh-day Adventist.
i really fine you know to much about me. you must be my brain or something, or you must be the subconscious side of it because i don't even know those thing about myself.
@revoltingtomato dude you believe what you want to but don't judge somebody else because they don't agree with you, this whole angel thing is cemented in your head and no matter what i say you wont change you mind so have a nice life, i can't show you that only the spirit can, because nobody could have show me the same, so you study as i did my study and see what you come up with that all i can tell you.
@MrKEvangelist You didn't say anything to me. All you've given me here is a pile of internet-crap from one of JW site and your own belief mixed for the mixture to result in an ugly blob for a goo. Aside from JW crap, the reiteration of verses from Daniel, Revelations, etc., and your way of brushing off, ignoring my counter points, there's nothing you've provided me with.
@MrKEvangelist You are telling me the verses you've picked up from random internet sites to supplment your wrong belief and those are from JW sites, mind you. You fail to counter my points in that you do not actually counter them, as you dodge them, then give me some random verses from the Bible or a website then acts as though you are telling me the truth.
@MrKEvangelist I do not believe you have the Holy Spirit in you nor are you guided by Holy Spirit. This is because you cower at the fact that someone may criticize you and pull you down for your lack of knowledge. You lie and blaspheme for your own satisfaction of getting someone down in a discussion. You hide yourself behind the notion that you are not a JW, yet shares their beliefs. Coward cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
@revoltingtomato this will be my last message brother, search the word of God and compere scripture with scripture, line upon line here a little there a little and with the Spirit Guidance u will see the truth.
@revoltingtomato trust me this is something i had problems with for a while, i did my research and i based on the word of God that's my belief, so bro i am not debating this no more if you want some info on it, you have my email feel free but am not going to debate this because this is not going anywhere, have a great night friend
@MrKEvangelist Yes it's your human belief, where as my belief comes from the Word of God. Your research and your own interpretation of the Bible pitted against God's will to save humanity.
@MrKEvangelist If you truly researched and came up with this answer upon the guidance from Holy Spirit, then why are you rendered unable to answer my questions for you?
@revoltingtomato if have answered all your questions, you have just failed to see if, because you holding on to what you have so you will never see it, if you humble yourself and really take a look at it you will see all the ans right in front of you.
@revoltingtomato you are missing the point, and i am in no way demoting Jesus to creature or angel, he is Jehovah and i believe that, just take another look at the subject and study is carefully, pray about it and study it, and the Lord will revile his truth to you, but never go to Gods word as though you kno it all, you will never learn, because i was not always a believer of this teaching, is after careful study i came to this conclusion.
@MrKEvangelist You are either constantly changing your mind, or denying the scriptures. As I've said before, you cannot become God, if you are God, then you must have always been God. Before I give you my list of my unanswered questions for you, let me ask you this question, "Have you met Jesus?"
@revoltingtomato and there we go again, i am just going around in circles with you, i dont kno where you get that from because i never said that, and Jesus has always been God from eternity, and i have been serving Christ for the past ten years, am not going to ague that no more because that is not beneficial to salvation, but it is a bible truth weather you want to believe it of not.
@MrKEvangelist I even quoted your words, wow. Can you say that you truly did not make that mistake back there? Because if you did, and you do not repent, you know what will happen to you.
@MrKEvangelist Moreover, he was in a critical condition as a human. If so, his thinking process as a man should have been severely deteriorated from the fatique. So, how and why?
@revoltingtomato Jesus over came trough the power of his Father, and by the word of God, he never use his divine powers for his own benefits no where in the bible you will find that, he said that himself i do noting of myself but the Father witch hath sent John 5:30
@MrKEvangelist Why are you keep dodging my question? What I am trying to ask you here is not the presence of God's help, but Jesus' sudden capability to process his thoughts better as a fragile human than as an archangel. Btw, Jesus countered Satan's third and last attempt to tempt him by saying that no one should try to test God, which would mean that Jesus claimed himself to be God and because he is God, Satan should not tempt Jesus for he is God.
@revoltingtomato My Friend Jesus over came as a man and not God because if it was possible for him to save us as a spirit being he would have done so, because it was impossible for God to fail and 2 die as a spirit he took our nature subject to weakness he was 100 percent God as though he was not a man at all and he was !00% man as though he was not God at all, that why the bible says Great is the the mystery of Godliness.
@MrKEvangelist And now comes the great spasm. Seriously, if you are that confident about your faith, then why do you keep dodging my questions over and over? Also, Jesus is both 100% God and 100% human. No where does it say in the bible that God's death would be a failure. You are contradicting yourself by denying God's omnipotence. Remember that God can do anything. Plus, how can one angel or a man's sacrifice be enough to save the mankind? Only God can have that kind of ability.
@revoltingtomato man do you even understand what am saying? 1st to begin with i believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and fully God, i also believe that it was possible for him to fail, Christ himself said that the devil has come and found no fault in me witch means it was possible to find fault, i also believe that Michael is his war name or one of his name, check out the old tess where a angel is referred to as God.
@MrKEvangelist "My Friend Jesus over came as a man and not God because if it was possible for him to save us as a spirit being he would have done so, because it was impossible for God to fail and 2 die as a spirit he took our nature" You did deny Jesus' status as God. The Bible tells us God is eternal, always existed, exist, and will exist. God is also one being. One can't become God, as God told us there was, is, and will be no God other than Him.
@revoltingtomato A superficial study of Michael the Archangel, tainted with pagan ideas about the hierarchy of angels, might imply that an archangel is a created being. A more thorough study of the subject reveals that:
1. The term "angel" means messenger, and does not always refer to created beings, but is sometimes used to refer to divinity.
@MrKEvangelist I take it that you are now resorting to a method, which involves mindless copy-and-paste ritual, correct? Do you even understand these things or are you just doing this to win this debate over?
@revoltingtomato hey man, if you want to chat i will love to, just send your info and i will add u and we will chat, but this is very difficult searching trough all those messages to see your reply, i sent my email to you in one of the messages, feel free to send the info anytime and i will be happy to chat with you on this subject and many more, peace bro :)
@MrKEvangelist Satan is the god of this age, and those (humans) that oppose him by accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior is given the promise to rule with Jesus. This promise comes with a vision that angels will serve us after our salvation. Jesus is God, not an angel. He is the one who will rule, not serve.
@MrKEvangelist Jesus, in his weakened and torn human state, defeated Satan in a verbal warfare, where as Michael was only able to rebuke the devil by bringing up God in their debate. Jesus is God, and Michael an angel. Regardless of his status as one of the chief princes of God, Mike is still an angel.
@revoltingtomato Ans- (Zechariah 3:3). In this narrative, the name changes quickly from "the angel of the Lord" (verse 1) to "the Lord" (verse 2), indicating again that they are the same. Then the Lord makes an interesting statement. "And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan" (Zechariah 3:2).
@MrKEvangelist Once again, Michael is like a webcam used during live chat between two individuals. Thus, God is able to speak through Michael's mouth whenever he feels like doing so.
@revoltingtomato There is only one other place in Scripture, Jude 9, where this sen- tence is found—and Michael the archangel speaks it! In the short epistle of Jude, we witness a vignette similar to Joshua and the angel in Zechariah. "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee" (Jude 1:9).
@MrKEvangelist In the revelation, God uses Michael as His acting mouth piece to state His words. The revelation also makes a clear distinction between Michael and Jesus, as Michael only casts Satan down to the earth, where as Jesus essentially defeats Satan and his minions.
@revoltingtomato "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but saith, The Lord rebuke thee. (Jude 9)
Satan is the "accuser of our brethren." (Revelation 12:10) Because of his character, Christ does not deal in railing accusations. However He did rebuke Satan! The very next phrase says " said, the Lord rebuke thee."
@revoltingtomato The situations are amazingly parallel: Christ and Satan are contending over the fate of two of God’s great human leaders (a living one in the case of Joshua, and a dead one in the case of Moses). The debate is ended abruptly when Jesus says, "The Lord rebuke thee."
@revoltingtomato Christ was refereeing to the trinity himself included when he use the word LORD, and notice it is LORD and not Lord, the word LORD is the translation of the word Jehovah, witch speaks of the eternal existent the word Lord is a translation of the word Adonai witch speaks of Gods authority.
@MrKEvangelist "Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia." Daniel 10:12 (NKJV)
@MrKEvangelist If Michael is one of those "chief princes" of God, then he cannot be the sole heir of God's inheritance. This is because Jesus is said to be God's only begotten Son.
@mayuhavepeace i think what people can seem to get out of there minds is the word angel, but if they study with humility as you said they will see it.
You are right, it's the word "angel" that stumbles him. *IF* Michael was not referred to as the Archangel by Jude (who was the half-brother of Jesus), then he would GLADLY have accepted Michael as Jesus. Yeah, it's the angel part of Archangel that stumbles him.
Also, in the Bible a "King" is the head of a government that rules over a dominion, a Kingdom.
In the Bible, the word "Princes" is a general reference to rulers as a whole, and that includes Kings.
@mayuhavepeace In the Bible the term, "prince" refers to those who rule under the governing power of a king. The princes themselves do not have total governing power like that of a king. He shares the power with another, but, unlike a king, his authority is limited.
@mayuhavepeace Just because a term made definition to be exchangeable, does not mean that definition themselves can be exchanged with one another too.
When Michael "stands up" the context of the prophecy (Alexander "stands up") as RULER.
Then what Daniel says will happen? A great tribulation as Jesus described would happen on his return (Mat 24:21). The resurrection of the dead, of those written in the book of life (Rev 20:12,13) and...
"And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse, and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever."
But that just makes him a SPECIAL ANGEL - it does NOT PRECLUDE HIM.
Only ONE of the angels is God's Only-Begotten - so that makes him ABOVE all other angels. And yes, obeisance in a relative term in the Bible is appropriate, but translating this as worship is not. Read "Truth in Translation" J.D.BeDuhn.
That Michael and Jesus is the same, the TOTAL PROOF is in Daniel 12:1-3
Ignore that at your peril as MICHAEL BECOMES KING !
@mayuhavepeace Those particular verses from the book of daniel only foretells the Michael's emergence at the end times for the sole purpose of fighting and casting down Satan down to the earth.
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Jesus is not michael the archangel, stop lying watchtower..... Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
146believe 3 weeks ago
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revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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revoltingtomato 1 month ago
A Catholic gives title of a saint to those who do not deserve such title, just like you do to me, who, to you, is a misguided sheep. When’d I ever say that I know you entirely, I said I know what would be there beneath your superficial mask of tough acts. No, I just use the Google search. Get with the times, before you accuse someone of being your personal stalker. Still, this doesn’t change the fact that you contradict yourself.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist How would you be limited? You have everything you need here, at Youtube. The only difference between Youtube and e-mail engine would be that the messages would be sent to each post more quickly on Youtube than any e-mail engine.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
QUESTION:
In what SENSE does Michael "stand up" in Daniel 12:1 ?
Please don't fob me off,as it is too important - there MUST be an explanation WHAT that phrase "stand up" means.
Also, note earlier in the same prophecy, Alexander the Great is said to "stand up".
PLEASE EXPLAIN.
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace He will "stands up" in the sense that he will appear to cast the serpent down to the earth during the end times.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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@revoltingtomato
"He will "stands up" in the sense that he will appear to cast the serpent down to the earth during the end times"
WRONG!
That completely ignores the context of the prophecy.
I every instance is Daniel 11-12, the two chapters where the prophecy is recorded, EVERY instance is where a KING "stands up".
Ergo, Michael STANDS UP AS A KING.
You seem to ignore a number of things for the single reason that Michael is an ANGEL and that STUMBLES YOU.
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato
Think about this just for a moment.
If Michael is Jesus, then Daniel 10-11 is a MESSIANIC prophecy.
If Michael is not Jesus, then you are saying that Daniel 10-11 is NOT a MESSIANIC prophecy.
The whole point of the prophecy is then LOST ON YOU !!
And why, because a Trinity that you can ONLY ASSERT and NOT PROVE.
I think you are in a dangerous place. Sorry, but I feel obligated to tell you that.
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace If you deny, blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you shall not be forgiven, not in this age or the age to come. Remember that.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
"Look! There will yet be three KINGS standing up for Persia.."
Until Alexander the Great: "“And a mighty KING will certainly stand up and rule with extensive dominion and do according to his will. And when he will have stood up, his kingdom will be broken and be divided..."
Augustus: "And there must stand up in his position one who is causing an exactor to pass through the splendid kingdom."
Tiberius: "And there must stand up in his position one who is to be despised."
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace You keep mention Alexander, but what good would it do, if other key pieces of info. you have there cannot be gathered for the fact that they lack evidence? Also, please do answer the question that I've asked you. Do they have Holy Spirit or not?
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato
If they come to an erroneous conclusion that cannot even get the most basic idea of Jehovah being a *ONE* God?
I think you know that answer already.
Satan must be pleased. The Trinity means they cannot get to know the Father since they confuse him with His Son, and the won't get to know the Son either since they confuse him with the Father. Satan must find that to be delicious.
And are you claiming that Holy Spirit lead YOU to believe in the Trinity?
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace So, you say. Since it'd be the job of Holy Spirit to guide the misguided one, I will give you my first and probably last warning. If you do not believe in Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, to have come in the flesh and always was God, then you will not be able to inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus says in the revelation, "I am Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and End."
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato
I believe that Jesus is the *SON* of God.
But YOU DO NOT - in fact you DENY Jesus is the *SON* at all !!!
The *FATHER* is the very LIFE-GIVER of Jesus. Jesus is the *SON* ONLY if he really RECEIVED LIFE.
Otherwise HE IS NOBODY'S SON!!!
A *FATHER* is one THAT GIVES LIFE.
A *SON* is one that RECEIVES LIFE.
Anything else is s STRANGE VIEW OF *BOTH* JESUS AND GOD.
"Even if an angel out of heaven.. let him be be accursed." GAL 1:8-9
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace That's because you are trying to assert the human logic that a being cannot be composed of three different and distinct persons. God is different from man. You believe an angel to be your savior, where as I believe Jesus Christ, both 100% God and 100% man, the Son of God, the only begotten Son of God, to be my sole Lord and Savior.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato
So warn me as much as you like. There is no scriptural authority on your part.
If the "Holy Spirit" you claim is talking to you, then maybe all those silly ideas about being a "cult" applies to you?
I don't have voices in my head, but I am guided by scripture and I will take that as bona fide any time over whatever "voice" you are listening to.
Hence I say again, you are in a dangerous place.
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace What voice? I said I believe Holy Spirit led me to my belief in God, not that there's a voice in my head. If you are so cocky as to throw your curses at me, then do you believe you are being led by Holy Spirit? You fear God. You fear that you may be wrong and perhaps you yourself is in a dangerous place, not me. That's why you fail to give me direct answers.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace Yes, I very much believe that it is Holy Spirit that lead me to believe in our Triune God. Do you believe that it is not Holy Spirit, but an evil spirit that's leading me to believe in our Triune God? I fear no more, as I've given you my warning and if you turn from Jesus now, it would be your choice and I would probably be spared from getting your blood on my hands.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato
I don't know WHAT spirit to which you are listening, but I do know what spirit is is NOT !
So you are making a case for a belief in God has to be ILLOGICAL?
Are you kidding me?
You have now confirmed that the belief in the Trinity is *ILLOGICAL* !
Thank you, that is EXACTLY the point I was making.
Instead I believe in a God of REASON - and God only rightly expects us to REASON.
The Trinity? Then our worship of Him becomes UN-REASONABLE.
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace Then tell me directly just which spirit I happen to listen right now.
No, it's just that a human's logic does not reach the realm of God.
No, I am deadly serious about this.
No, I did not.
No, you should not thank me for such a thing, as I did not do such a thing.
Then by all means, reason how an angel could make a sacrifice to save the mankind.
Nope.
I am gonna get some sleep, but I promise I will be back tomorrow to settle this. Bye.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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@MrKEvangelist Once again, Michael is like a webcam used during live chat between two individuals. Thus, God is able to speak through Michael's mouth whenever he feels like doing so.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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@MrKEvangelist Once again, Michael is like a webcam used during live chat between two individuals. Thus, God is able to speak through Michael's mouth whenever he feels like doing so.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato i have spoken with you since yesterday and not once i have told you anything about not entering because you don't believe what i believe, and i am not a JW and the study i did is strictly bible, so instead of judging me contact me let us settle this once and for all, you see if what i say have any truth in it and i will see if what you have to say, and i believe your belief about Jesus is true but you just don't believe Michael is one of his names.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Again, I can quote you as many times as I want and I've even snapped a photoshot of your comments, so deletion of your comments will not help you. You clearly denied Jesus' status as human and God. You are now relating his status as "Chief messenger" to his divinity, but mere capitalization of the term "Chief" isn't going to get you anywhere in convincing someone.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist
"You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.'"
Isaiah 14:13
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato
Tell me what Paul says here:
"However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed... I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed."
What did Paul mean when he said "EVEN IF WE"...?
Think about that carefully, what is *WE* here - and if you cannot answer that, WOW!
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace Who gives you the right to bring Paul here? Do you honestly believe that shielding yourself with a random, believable verse from the Bible will save you? Are you going to repeat your actions when you stand before Jesus to be judged?
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace A prophecy that an archangel Michael will cast devil down to the earth, and Jesus will come afterwards to finish the job. I don't see any problem in this, mind you. Let me ask you this, do you then believe that any being who believes in the notion of Trinity dwells in a dangerous place? If so, then you must believe that they lack Holy Spirit, for why would Holy Spirit guide them to such dangerous place?
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
if you need in more info on this topic feel free to email me at- childoftheking777@hotmail.com
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
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MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
I am not a JW but i believe that Jesus is Micheal, The word arch simply means chief and What is an Angel?
The word angel in the Bible is a translation of the Hebrew Malak or the Greek Aggelos, both of which mean "messenger." He is the Chief Messenger.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist What does denomination has to do with anything here? Yes, the term, "arch," simply means chief and the Bible tells us that there are more than one chief princes out there.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato that word "one" in the kjv and nkjv is one of the poor interpretation on that verse that one could mean one and it could also be first, here is Young's Literal Translation
'And the head of the kingdom of Persia is standing over-against me twenty and one days, and lo, Michael, first of the chief heads, hath come in to help me, and I have remained there near the kings of Persia; and we no Satan was refer to as the prince of this world,so in a very real sense he is a chief prince.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
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MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Are we on the same page here, or are you just talking nonsense? Despite your rants about wrong translations, both Young's Literal Translation as well as KJV versions state that there is more than one chief princes in existence. This removes the possibility of Michael being Jesus, as Jesus is said to be the only begotten Son of God.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato My friend Michael is First of the chief princes, witch means he is highest of the highest, this text is just another reference to preeminence just like col 1:15 and onward he is the first born of the dead, the head of the church, am sure that you know that the angels are called the sons of God, we are also called sons of God, and Christ has promised us to rule with him as prince and priests......my friend Satan is the Chief prince of this world so yes there are more that 1.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Yeah, as you say here, Michael is the first of the chief princes, but no where does it say in the Bible that Jesus is part of that group. Being the first as in Michael has been created before other chief princes, where as Jesus is the firstborn over all creation. Any being that's been picked up by God essentially becomes a part of sons of God, where as Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato Ok well my question to you is this, how many archangels are there? and ?# 2 how do you explain angel worship, because no angel would accept worship, eg(see Revelation 19:10; 22:8, 9) so who was the angel that appeared to Moses in the burning bush? next message i will give you some examples, but i need the ans to those question.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist That isn't for us to know, as the number of archangels in heaven would be irrelevant answer for our faith in God. At that time, Michael was not only delivering the message of God, but he was acting as the mouth piece of God. Of course, Michael's level was higher than that of any other prophets, as God was actually speaking through the mouth of that archangel. So, for Joshua, it would've been an experience that equals live chat with God.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato my friend there is only one Archangel and the word is only found 2 times in scripture jude 9 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16. and its the voice of the Archangel that raise the dead no created being has life in themselves, jh 5:28 say it the voice of the son of man that raise the dead Dan 10 21 says Mic is the ruler of Gods people and and many other places in the bible Jesus is the ruler of Gods people so how many rulers are there?
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist The Bible says otherwise. "because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first" 1 Thessalonians 4:16
Since there is only one known archangel in the Bible, Judas was referring to the one whom he knew, Michael. You do not foreshadow a number of others in a specific group, when you are exemplifying a figure. It's the basic rule of the literature.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato they must be the same person because there is only one head of the church.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Dan 10:21 does not say that.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato a prince is a rules, and Michael is called Daniel's ruler or the ruler of the Jews
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Jews think of Michael as their protector or a guardian angel, not a ruler. If you were to bring that notion to any group of Jews, you'd be shunned.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Prince is a title given to a son of a ruler, not the ruler himself.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Joshua, therefore, was enabled to worship God through Michael. Why would you need me to identify the angel that appeared to Moses in teh burning bush?
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato did you check out the text in revelation? my friend God said that he will not Give his Glory to another, so if this angel in Zac in the LORD then he is not a created being but GOD in this sense Christ is the messenger of the the Trinity or the angel of the LORD same meaning in the bible an angel is referred to as a spirit being witch is know by all, also humans are called angels in the bible, likewise deity is also referred to as an angel, all it means is messenger.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist When you talk to someone on the phone, does that mean you are talking to the phone or the person whom you are making a phone call to? If you make a kiss sign to your lover in a live chat, does that mean you are sending that kiss to your web cam or your lover? Think about that.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist The clarification has been made in the revelation as God tells us that he speaks through an archangel if he so wishes to.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Archangel means the chief messenger. Your regular angel can only speak what he has heard from God, where as an archangel can allow a conversation between God and another being to happen.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato check out Heb 1 vs 1 there are only 3 angels name mention in the bible Lucifer Gabriel and Michael who is not a created being but creator of the angels, it is Christ war name, just as he has many other names I AM Adodai Prince of Peace ect.... and the only reason why Gabriel is named is because he now holds the position that Satan once held witch is covering cherub witch is the highest position of the angels.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Those are nicely thought out ideas, but they are only human thoughts at their best. There's no mentioning of Gabriel's promotion in the Bible and Gabriel certainly was of no match for Satan. Michael was only able to snatch a win from Satan in that particular verbal warfare, thanks to God's intervention. Prince of Peace is a title given to solely Jesus and not Michael.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato the war has always been Christ and Satan, on earth it has been Christ in heaven it was Christ and Satan, Mic and the Dragon and reason why Gabriel could not defeat Satan is because not even the strongest angel is a march for sin, only God can deal with it that is why the death of the highest could not have paid for the sinners only an infinite being could have done it, Satan is the Father of sin And Jesus is the God on righteousness.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist There is no war in heaven nor earth. It's the fallen angel's inability to manage his temper that's allowing this to happen. For God is so merciful, he is letting Satan to cause destruction on the earth, till due time. Jesus once said he saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Upon God's command, Satan becomes powerless and that's one of the end result of his rebellion.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Michael failed to defeat the serpent by himself, so he had no choice but to ask God to intervene on his behalf, where as Jesus, even in his weakened and lower than angels state, overwhelmed Satan in a verbal warfare. See the difference? God could crush the snake anytime.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato dan 12:1 Michael is the prince that stands for Gods people in the last day, and the bible clearly states that is Jesus that stands for his people in many other places, friend you need to compere scripture with scripture nits like a puzzle u need to put all the parts together, hey man, if you want to talk more you can email me your msn or skype info maybe we can video chat of something (childoftheking777@hotmail.com)
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Where does he say that? And there's also the clear difference in both the power and authority between Michael and Jesus. Explain to me how does Jesus, in his weakened form, overwhelms Satan, when he could not do so in his supposedly more powerful angelic state?
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato Friend you are missing the point, read dan chapter 10 properly and check out the choice of words the the writer use, and where in the bible was Michael defeated by the devil? no where you will find that, and for the record Jesus defeated Satan with the word of God and not because he was God you and i can do the same, he over came as a man, the reason why he took our nature is because as God he could not be tempted and he could not die.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Let's not twist the words here. I never did say that Michael was defeated by the devil, but that he couldn't manage to defeat him on his own. He needed God to defeat the devil for him in that particular verbal warfare, where as Jesus did not. Again, if Jesus really was Michael like you say, then why would he suddenly be capable of overwhelming the foe, whom he previously could not defeat as an angel, in his comparably weaker form?
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato my friend The same God of the old tess is the same God of the New, the bible say that no man hath seen God at anytime,but his son has declared him, so if nobody has seen the Father at any time then all these old tess siting of God must be the same Jesus The Angel of the covenant, the Captain of the Lords host witch is the same as Archangel, Christ role in the trinity is the mouth peace fo God he is the Word, the communicator of God, the Messenger of the God head
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Do you recognize the fact that you talk like one of those people from Islam or Muslim religions? Jesus was not merely a prophet of the LORD, he even states in the revelation, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and end," just like our God would.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomat is ether you can't read or you are hard of understanding, because i if you read what i said you will see clearly that in no way i am saying Jesus is a Prophet, what am saying is that as the Word of God Jh 1:1 he communicates the messages of the God head, and when i say God head i mean trinity, he is God thoughts become audible the trinity is three distinct persons with one purpose, witch is the salvation of man, God is not a wild God he is a God of order.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
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@MrKEvangelist "My Friend Jesus over came as a man and not God because if it was possible for him to save us as a spirit being he would have done so, because it was impossible for God to fail and 2 die as a spirit he took our nature" I've quoted your words again and again. You denied Jesus' divinity and that's all there's to it. Here, you were saying that Jesus came as a man, but not as God.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato So all am saying is because he is the Word of God jh 1:1 from sense Adam and Eve he has been speaking to us, from the Angel of the Lord who spoke to Moses to the captain of the Lords host who spoke to Joshua, and i think you should really read Zac ch 3 ans see that this person speaking to Joshua could in no wise be an angel but God, because he will not give his glory to another, and be cause Jesus is God it is his own glory, do your research bro.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Again, an angel means messenger, and an archangel is a term that's used to describe a chief messenger. An angel is like an e-mail transporter of God, where as an archangel would be a personal phone or a webcam of God. If you talk to someone on the phone, does that mean you are talking to the phone and not the person himself? If you perform a live chat with someone, does that mean you are communicating with your own webcam? The answer should be obvious to you.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato that is just another one of your human interpretation of Gods word my friend, if you have tree persons in the trinity and you have one coming to give a message to mankind is't he a messenger? and would't he be the Chief of all those who claim to be chiefs? there are many times in the bible where Jesus came to give a deliver a message in the new tess, in Rev to john on the isle of patmos, so who is he ? if he comes with a message then he is the Chief messenger cause he is God.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist How is my interpretation of Bible a human one, if you are the one trying to impose your human logic over the nature of God? According to your logic, then how can Holy Spirit be our counselor left by Jesus himself, if he was only meant to be a messenger? Also, he's come here to take the role of savior, i.e., make himself the sacrifice for our sins, not to leave us a message from God.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato man talking to you is like talking to a little child, you are failing to see the simplicity of what am saying, so you keep doing you thing bro, you are one of those gays who are settle in your ways and no matter what another person say, even if it makes sense it wont make sense to you, so you keep good have a bless day :) Gods blessing on you and yours.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Fine, since you are as cheap as to call me "gay" or "childish in nature," I will ask you this question to you as well, "Do you believe you are being led by Holy Spirit to believe what you believe?" I am happy to say that I believe I myself is being led to meet God and it is Holy Spirit that's giving me guidance in my faith in God. How about you? How sure are you of your own faith?
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato hey and i am sorry that should have been guys so am sorry, and yes i believe i am being led by the Spirit of God, and i am solid as a rock when it comes to my faith, i can give a ans as to why i believe in Christ so if i was to give a percentage i will say i am 200% sure out of 100, :)
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist If you were truly immersed in debating with me, then you would have given me direct answers to my questions. When I gave you the fact my theory concerning Michael, you threw it away as though you've already given me an answer to that question, yet you haven't.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato man i done tell you what to do already, if you want more info contact me what is the problem? are you afraid? i will give you my ans based on the bible but chatting on youtube is not cutting it.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist It's clear to me that you are out of things to say to me and are now throwing at me whatever you could grab from my comments such as, "human interpretations," "are you afraid?" And why would "chatting on youtube is not cutting it?"
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato because i am limited to write that why, and btw this topic is a very controversial one so it will take some steps to explain,......well if that is your conclusion then fine, but the invitation is still there any time you think you want to talk about this or any other topic i will be happy to do so, this kind of study take comparing scripture with scripture, it is no one to put two word and then you explain the whole thing.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
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MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist It is not a controversial one. Even an atheist historian on the street would admit the fact that, though a Mormon or a JW's tend to be nice, their way of asserting beliefs seem contradictory to what the Bible say. You share their beliefs, and despite the technicality that goes along with their beliefs, you accept claims from both sides.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist How would you be limited? You have everything you need here, at Youtube. The only difference between Youtube and e-mail engine would be that the messages would be sent to each post more quickly.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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@revoltingtomato This is really my last message the invitation is there for you and another person who wants to hear what i have to say based on the word of God on this subject.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist No where does it say in the Bible that Michael would be the chief of the chief angels. He is being described to be one of chief messengers of God. You are throwing in random logic here, how does his supposed status as the chief messenger of God relate to his status as God?
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato if you check the old tess you will see that there are countless times where God is referred to as an angel, but that does not mean he is created of lesser, Jesus is called the son of man, does that take away the God part of him?
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato and i think you should really read what i say before making those silly remarks, have a great day friend, all praises to the Great God Jesus Christ.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist This will be my last warning to you, you fraud. If you lie and act falsely in the name of God, along with the false-prophet, you will not be spared from damnation, as you would fail to repent your sins.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato So what are you now a priest and who are you to judge me? may God have mercy on you.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist I am not judging you, but am giving you my second and last warning as a fellow human being, not as a fellow Christian for you worship an angel to be your Lord. This is so that I would avoid getting lectured for leaving you stranded with false knowledge.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato i don't know where you get that from because i am not a angel worshiper, i worship the LORD but because you fail to get that angel thing out of your head you could never see that, and i think you are very much out of place to tell me what i believe is false, what i think you should do is humble yourself study the thing and see if there is any truth in it instead of judging.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist You are making a direct comparison between Jesus and Michael. Michael is not Jesus and Jesus was not an angel. You are thinking that he could be a messenger on a false impression. You are keep on reiterating yourself and claiming that I could not see the distinction between a being and a status of a being. Yet, you haven't even given me one straight answer out of all this.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato this is why i told you to contact me trough email for me to give you a clearer explanation, i i gave you so many straight ans, bro, this conversation on youtube will go no where because it wont allow me to share the stuff on this subject, so if you really want a good explanation on this topic and you want me to ans all you questions and you want to teach me something i am will to hear what you have to say, but discussing this here is not getting anywhere.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist How does discussing this issue here is not going to get us any where? Again, you are expressing your cowerdice in your failed attempt to both buy you a time and a way to discreetly fool the eyes of others on the web. If I were to go with your plan, it would only mean that you could openly express your curses against me without any fears of exposing yourself to the public.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato My friend you are doing noting but judging me, i have even study this topic with JW and we had a really nice study, the difference between me and the JW is they don't believe Jesus is God and i believe he is, so if you don't want to contact me, fine but stop coming up with your own conclusion about me because you don't know me.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Wow, there you go. You say that you are not a JW, but you are clearly in a study-relationship with JW's. Yes, the difference between you and JW is that a JW deny Jesus' status as God for the fact that they believe he is Michael and that would mean that he is the firstborn of God's creation. You share that same belief with them, but you believe that Jesus is both an archangel and God at the same time.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist In other words, you are on neither side, for you follow non-existent ideas of JW, yet you accept claims from both side, which would make you a hypocrite at best.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato leave the Judging to God and stop Judging me, bro, you need to watch yourself first because you kno nothing about me, and by the way that JW lady i was studying with is no longer a JW but a a practicing christian today thank to God.
.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist You have no basis for your claims. You've shown much of yourself by just talking to me; a liar, fornicator, false-prophet, and a false-believer. I don't just say this because you have different views with me on what the Bible say to us, but for the fact that you lack the ability to construct a valid argument. Again, I do not judge you for your beliefs. If I were to judge you, I would be sentencing you to be cast down in hell.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato watch what you say about God children before you cast Judgment on yourself, AND who you you to say that i am a liar fornicator ect i hope you are a saint because those word are going to fall back on you.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Wow, a saint. So, you are now confirming your status as half-baked Evangelist filled with some of Catholic, & JW beliefs from respective sites on the web. If you so dislike receiving criticism from me, then prove to me how your responses to my posts can be validated.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato man do you even kno the meaning of words? you are seriously a child, check you bible dictionary for the meaning of saint, you are unbelievable man, very childish, i am done dude you win, i can talk with someone who is sooo hard of understanding, i am done if you want to talk about this like two big men like i told you, you kno what to do.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist The term, "saint," refers to any believer who is in Jesus Christ, thus you contradict yourself by telling me that I am not guided by Holy Spirit and is ignorant of what the Bible says, yet you hope for me to be a saint to be exempt from eternal damnation. How does this make sense? Now that you've been insulted for your lack of knowledge, you've shifted your strategy from pushing your beliefs blindedly to ignorant self-preserving of your beliefs.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato since you are mr intelligent what does saint have to do with Catholic, it is a bible term also used to describe innocence, for your own info, and as far as i see, you is the only one who seem to know everything about me, who is half way across the world, you know i copy stuff from JW sites you know i am a fraud you know am a liar, you know am a fornicator, you know am a coward, you must be siting in my living room, or you MUST be God cause you know to much about me,
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato I think you even know more than my girl friend, lol and where did i say you were not guided by the Spirit, i never said that don't mistake me for yourself, you was the only person saying that, don't tie up your self.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
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@MrKEvangelist Your claims contained messages about me getting wrong ideas about God. This would mean that I am not guided by Holy Spirit, as Holy Spirit would not misguide anyone. This becomes another proof as to why you yourself is not sure of what you are writing on the web.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Plus, aside from the stuff you've copied over from that JW site, you act as though you carry charcoals on your back and the steam's getting to your head. I mean, "i can talk with someone who is sooo hard of understanding," seriously? I'd say this would be your first experience of meeting a hard cookie in Christ like me and you are hesitant in drawing yourself back, for I've put a scratch over your pride.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Subconscious? How does your nitpicking on your misinterpretation of one sentence I’ve given you relate to your subconscious? Again, stop it with your random-word picking.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato dude it's over, this convo is not going to get you and i anywhere (shake-hand) to you, Keep trusting in the Lord and keep sharing the gospel with those around you, and i will do the same because he is coming soon, instead of arguing about weather Jesus is Michael let us preach Jesus to a dying world. the point is he came and died weather you believe he is Micheal or not that is not going to save you its the blood and a personal relationship with him, its over, you win. :)
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
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@MrKEvangelist *refuses handshake* Why should I, a Christian, shake hands with the likes of you, who reject the gospel of our Lord and Savior? Like Paul said, a Christian should accurse the person who spreads gospel that’s not of ours to have that person return to Jesus.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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@MrKEvangelist I have failed you. I have failed Lord. I have not succeeded in convincing you over. If there’s a chance that your soul may be endangered in being cast down to hell, then how can I, as a fellow human being, rest as though nothing happened? I know who you are, a Seventh-day Adventist.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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i really fine you know to much about me. you must be my brain or something, or you must be the subconscious side of it because i don't even know those thing about myself.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Congrats, you've removed that poor soul from a swamp, just so you could drown her in an even deeper one.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato Father forgive him cause he knows not what he is doing.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist God rebukes for you ridicule Him with your half-baked ideas.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato dude you believe what you want to but don't judge somebody else because they don't agree with you, this whole angel thing is cemented in your head and no matter what i say you wont change you mind so have a nice life, i can't show you that only the spirit can, because nobody could have show me the same, so you study as i did my study and see what you come up with that all i can tell you.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist You didn't say anything to me. All you've given me here is a pile of internet-crap from one of JW site and your own belief mixed for the mixture to result in an ugly blob for a goo. Aside from JW crap, the reiteration of verses from Daniel, Revelations, etc., and your way of brushing off, ignoring my counter points, there's nothing you've provided me with.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist You are telling me the verses you've picked up from random internet sites to supplment your wrong belief and those are from JW sites, mind you. You fail to counter my points in that you do not actually counter them, as you dodge them, then give me some random verses from the Bible or a website then acts as though you are telling me the truth.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist I do not believe you have the Holy Spirit in you nor are you guided by Holy Spirit. This is because you cower at the fact that someone may criticize you and pull you down for your lack of knowledge. You lie and blaspheme for your own satisfaction of getting someone down in a discussion. You hide yourself behind the notion that you are not a JW, yet shares their beliefs. Coward cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato *the kingdom of God
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato this will be my last message brother, search the word of God and compere scripture with scripture, line upon line here a little there a little and with the Spirit Guidance u will see the truth.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato trust me this is something i had problems with for a while, i did my research and i based on the word of God that's my belief, so bro i am not debating this no more if you want some info on it, you have my email feel free but am not going to debate this because this is not going anywhere, have a great night friend
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Yes it's your human belief, where as my belief comes from the Word of God. Your research and your own interpretation of the Bible pitted against God's will to save humanity.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist If you truly researched and came up with this answer upon the guidance from Holy Spirit, then why are you rendered unable to answer my questions for you?
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato if have answered all your questions, you have just failed to see if, because you holding on to what you have so you will never see it, if you humble yourself and really take a look at it you will see all the ans right in front of you.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato you are missing the point, and i am in no way demoting Jesus to creature or angel, he is Jehovah and i believe that, just take another look at the subject and study is carefully, pray about it and study it, and the Lord will revile his truth to you, but never go to Gods word as though you kno it all, you will never learn, because i was not always a believer of this teaching, is after careful study i came to this conclusion.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist You are either constantly changing your mind, or denying the scriptures. As I've said before, you cannot become God, if you are God, then you must have always been God. Before I give you my list of my unanswered questions for you, let me ask you this question, "Have you met Jesus?"
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato and there we go again, i am just going around in circles with you, i dont kno where you get that from because i never said that, and Jesus has always been God from eternity, and i have been serving Christ for the past ten years, am not going to ague that no more because that is not beneficial to salvation, but it is a bible truth weather you want to believe it of not.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist I even quoted your words, wow. Can you say that you truly did not make that mistake back there? Because if you did, and you do not repent, you know what will happen to you.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Moreover, he was in a critical condition as a human. If so, his thinking process as a man should have been severely deteriorated from the fatique. So, how and why?
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato Jesus over came trough the power of his Father, and by the word of God, he never use his divine powers for his own benefits no where in the bible you will find that, he said that himself i do noting of myself but the Father witch hath sent John 5:30
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Why are you keep dodging my question? What I am trying to ask you here is not the presence of God's help, but Jesus' sudden capability to process his thoughts better as a fragile human than as an archangel. Btw, Jesus countered Satan's third and last attempt to tempt him by saying that no one should try to test God, which would mean that Jesus claimed himself to be God and because he is God, Satan should not tempt Jesus for he is God.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato My Friend Jesus over came as a man and not God because if it was possible for him to save us as a spirit being he would have done so, because it was impossible for God to fail and 2 die as a spirit he took our nature subject to weakness he was 100 percent God as though he was not a man at all and he was !00% man as though he was not God at all, that why the bible says Great is the the mystery of Godliness.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist And now comes the great spasm. Seriously, if you are that confident about your faith, then why do you keep dodging my questions over and over? Also, Jesus is both 100% God and 100% human. No where does it say in the bible that God's death would be a failure. You are contradicting yourself by denying God's omnipotence. Remember that God can do anything. Plus, how can one angel or a man's sacrifice be enough to save the mankind? Only God can have that kind of ability.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato man do you even understand what am saying? 1st to begin with i believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and fully God, i also believe that it was possible for him to fail, Christ himself said that the devil has come and found no fault in me witch means it was possible to find fault, i also believe that Michael is his war name or one of his name, check out the old tess where a angel is referred to as God.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
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@MrKEvangelist "My Friend Jesus over came as a man and not God because if it was possible for him to save us as a spirit being he would have done so, because it was impossible for God to fail and 2 die as a spirit he took our nature" You did deny Jesus' status as God. The Bible tells us God is eternal, always existed, exist, and will exist. God is also one being. One can't become God, as God told us there was, is, and will be no God other than Him.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Again, a verbal warfare doesn't have anything to do with your physical nor spiritual powers.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato A superficial study of Michael the Archangel, tainted with pagan ideas about the hierarchy of angels, might imply that an archangel is a created being. A more thorough study of the subject reveals that:
1. The term "angel" means messenger, and does not always refer to created beings, but is sometimes used to refer to divinity.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist I take it that you are now resorting to a method, which involves mindless copy-and-paste ritual, correct? Do you even understand these things or are you just doing this to win this debate over?
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
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@revoltingtomato hey man, if you want to chat i will love to, just send your info and i will add u and we will chat, but this is very difficult searching trough all those messages to see your reply, i sent my email to you in one of the messages, feel free to send the info anytime and i will be happy to chat with you on this subject and many more, peace bro :)
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Satan is the god of this age, and those (humans) that oppose him by accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior is given the promise to rule with Jesus. This promise comes with a vision that angels will serve us after our salvation. Jesus is God, not an angel. He is the one who will rule, not serve.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Jesus, in his weakened and torn human state, defeated Satan in a verbal warfare, where as Michael was only able to rebuke the devil by bringing up God in their debate. Jesus is God, and Michael an angel. Regardless of his status as one of the chief princes of God, Mike is still an angel.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato Ans- (Zechariah 3:3). In this narrative, the name changes quickly from "the angel of the Lord" (verse 1) to "the Lord" (verse 2), indicating again that they are the same. Then the Lord makes an interesting statement. "And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan" (Zechariah 3:2).
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist Once again, Michael is like a webcam used during live chat between two individuals. Thus, God is able to speak through Michael's mouth whenever he feels like doing so.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato There is only one other place in Scripture, Jude 9, where this sen- tence is found—and Michael the archangel speaks it! In the short epistle of Jude, we witness a vignette similar to Joshua and the angel in Zechariah. "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee" (Jude 1:9).
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist In the revelation, God uses Michael as His acting mouth piece to state His words. The revelation also makes a clear distinction between Michael and Jesus, as Michael only casts Satan down to the earth, where as Jesus essentially defeats Satan and his minions.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but saith, The Lord rebuke thee. (Jude 9)
Satan is the "accuser of our brethren." (Revelation 12:10) Because of his character, Christ does not deal in railing accusations. However He did rebuke Satan! The very next phrase says " said, the Lord rebuke thee."
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato The situations are amazingly parallel: Christ and Satan are contending over the fate of two of God’s great human leaders (a living one in the case of Joshua, and a dead one in the case of Moses). The debate is ended abruptly when Jesus says, "The Lord rebuke thee."
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato Christ was refereeing to the trinity himself included when he use the word LORD, and notice it is LORD and not Lord, the word LORD is the translation of the word Jehovah, witch speaks of the eternal existent the word Lord is a translation of the word Adonai witch speaks of Gods authority.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato And Christ is the Highest of them all.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato check out your bible lexicon for the meaning behind the words.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist "Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia." Daniel 10:12 (NKJV)
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist If Michael is one of those "chief princes" of God, then he cannot be the sole heir of God's inheritance. This is because Jesus is said to be God's only begotten Son.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist
It seems that when we disagree with him we are guilty of "rants"?
I am guilty of "You are reiterating yourself for no good reason". Huh?
I think this guy is typical of the worldly attitudes we see cultivated on YouTube.
A bit of humility would go a long way.
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace i think what people can seem to get out of there minds is the word angel, but if they study with humility as you said they will see it.
MrKEvangelist 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist
You are right, it's the word "angel" that stumbles him. *IF* Michael was not referred to as the Archangel by Jude (who was the half-brother of Jesus), then he would GLADLY have accepted Michael as Jesus. Yeah, it's the angel part of Archangel that stumbles him.
Also, in the Bible a "King" is the head of a government that rules over a dominion, a Kingdom.
In the Bible, the word "Princes" is a general reference to rulers as a whole, and that includes Kings.
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace In the Bible the term, "prince" refers to those who rule under the governing power of a king. The princes themselves do not have total governing power like that of a king. He shares the power with another, but, unlike a king, his authority is limited.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@MrKEvangelist
The word "Naghidh" is Hebrew for 'Prince" - it can mean anything from "Leader" to "Noble" and "Prince" is just one possible translation.
Both Saul and David were called Naghidh - and THEY WERE BOTH KINGS !!!
The tribe of Judah as a whole God called Naghidh - since the line of KINGS from David onward came from Judah.
INDEED ALL RULERS WERE PRINCES!
BTW, the limited idea that a "Prince" was always the son of the ruling King is a much more modern idea.
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace Just because a term made definition to be exchangeable, does not mean that definition themselves can be exchanged with one another too.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
When Michael "stands up" the context of the prophecy (Alexander "stands up") as RULER.
Then what Daniel says will happen? A great tribulation as Jesus described would happen on his return (Mat 24:21). The resurrection of the dead, of those written in the book of life (Rev 20:12,13) and...
"And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse, and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever."
WHEN MICHAEL RETURNS!
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
At least right about one thing:
Jesus is NO MERE ANGEL.
But that just makes him a SPECIAL ANGEL - it does NOT PRECLUDE HIM.
Only ONE of the angels is God's Only-Begotten - so that makes him ABOVE all other angels. And yes, obeisance in a relative term in the Bible is appropriate, but translating this as worship is not. Read "Truth in Translation" J.D.BeDuhn.
That Michael and Jesus is the same, the TOTAL PROOF is in Daniel 12:1-3
Ignore that at your peril as MICHAEL BECOMES KING !
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace Those particular verses from the book of daniel only foretells the Michael's emergence at the end times for the sole purpose of fighting and casting down Satan down to the earth.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago
@revoltingtomato
In Dan 12:1 it says "And during that time Michael will stand up" and as you point out, the context shows this will happen at the end times.
But Dan 12 is the continuation of a prophecy that starts Dan 11:1 and is the last 2 chapters of Dan.
It is sometimes called the Prophecy of the Kings of North and South.
"“Look! There will yet be three kings standing up for Persia" and "And a mighty king will certainly stand up" in verse 3 is about Alexander...
mayuhavepeace 1 month ago
@mayuhavepeace Those are all parallels that are being made between Daniel and Revelation.
revoltingtomato 1 month ago