Retro NBA - Oscar Robertson

[ddf1943]

Dear gmn545. I don't know why you insist on the "Pace" of the game. There was still a 24 second clock and in the Pace of the Game, even though there was more "all around touches" as you put it he averaged 5 less shots per Game than Jordan in the early part of his career and 8 less in the later part. This makes your argument moot.

[gmn545]

@ddf1943 "They had a 24 second clock also" Yeah, but they didn't burn as much shot-clock time. Consider Loyola Marymount (1990). They averaged one shot attempt after just 10 seconds of ball possession, and ended up averaging a record 122.4 PPG! Bo Kimble went from averaging 16.8 pts, 4.2 rebs, 1.4 ast on 23.4 MPG (the previous year) to averaging 35.3 pts, 7.7 rebs, 1.9 ast on 32.9 MPG. See what more ball possessions and minutes per game can do to a player's stats?

[ddf1943]

I don't understand what you mean by pace. They had a 24 second clock also. M.J. had more touches on the ball then anyone in the history of the game, so I am confused on your argument.

[gmn545]

@ddf1943 The pacing of a game is determined by the number of team possessions per 48 min of playing time. In '62, the average team took 107.7 shots per game. By comparison, in '09 the average team took 80.2 FGA/G. Oscar's Royals avg. 124.7 poss/48, while the league pace factor in '09 was 91.7 poss/48. Think about that.

Oscar's stats are inflated because his team got WAY more possessions than any team in the modern league could ever get, and as "Point-Forward", he brought the ball up every time.

[rhinohoppster]

is it just me or is this video softtttttt

[Ariamaluum]

Once Oscar can get the game into a saunter, where he is bouncing off guys, it was over. You really had to speed him up with traps and quickness from small guards.

[emmettk]

At the end of his first 5 complete seasons in the NBA, his per-game averages: 30 points- 10 assists- 10 rebounds. Nobody else ever came close to doing it for ONE season! Oh, and throw in- he was a lock-down defender. If Oscar isn't on your all-time top 10 list, then you don't know your NBA history. If he's not the greatest player of all time, then settle for best all-around player.

[gmn545]

@emmettk Oscar's stats were inflated due to that era's pace. In '62, the average team took 107.7 shots per game. By comparison, in '09 the average team took 80.2 FGA/G. The league pace factor for '62 was 125.5 possessions/48 min., whereas it was 91.7 in '09. Oscar's Royals avg. 124.7 poss/48, while Wilt's Warriors put up a staggering 129.7! Adjust '09 LeBron played at a '62-style pace. The results: 40.1 PPG, 10.3 RPG, & 10.0 APG!! As you can see, those 35.5 extra poss/g makes a HUGE difference.

[emmettk]

@gmn545 Even if you try to minimize the accomplishment by selectively adjusting stats by era,, while his points and rebounds may go down, his assist totals would not because the requirement for an official assist in those days was far more strict. I don't believe in these artificial adjustments you like to use, but if you're going to use them, you can't just use the ones that help your case. The fact remains, only one person ever did 30/10/10 and that's Robertson.

[gmn545]

@emmettk At the pace of today's game, Oscar's 62 season pans out to 22.0 PPG, 8.9 RPG, & 8.1 APG, which is still really good. Perhaps a slight increase in apg due to rules on assists, true. And "ones that help your case"? Which ones don't? And yes, it's a fact Oscar achieved a triple double, but you have to put it in context of the pace of the game. He got 35.5 extra possessions.

[emmettk]

@gmn545 My point is, you seem to want to shoot down the opinion that Robertson was one of the great all-around players in NBA history. Many younger people have never even heard of him and place decidedly lesser players ahead of him. Even if a statistic can be proven to be somewhat inflated in the context of a different era, if NO ONE else was ever able to challenge that stat, it remains a worthy accomplishment and proof of greatness. No need to hate.

[gmn545]

@emmettk He clearly is one of the best all-around players. But his triple-double season is inflated; nobody back then dominated ball possession like he did and noboy else can challenge it today due to pace. And Michael Jordan late in March of '89 season, when Doug Collins switched him to PG and he dominated the ball like Oscar, he got a triple double in 10 of 11 games (7 straight). Jordan continued to play PG until the end of the season. In those 24 games he averaged 29.3ppg, 8.9rpg, 10.6 apg.

[ddf1943]

@gmn545 apparently you don't understand the game as you should. Between assist, rebounds and scoring, Oscar contributed more points to the total team game than any other player,(51ppg) He also played 44 minutes per game second only to Wilt. Assists were stricter back in the 50' thru the 70's By todays standards he would have had over 20,000

[gmn545]

@ddf1943 Yes he did, but his stats were inflated, due to his era's pace. If you get a significant amount of more touches, conjoined with high MPG, it is highly probable that each stat category's numbers will look high. Regarding MPG, the league's modern stars won't get a chance to match it. Wilt kept playing even when the game was a blowout (Oscar probably had games like that too).

Assists were stricter, indeed, but if he's given less MPG, it's doubtful his APG would have gone up much more.

[sitonmyshamrock]

Here it is fools once and for all....

Wilt, Bird, McHale, Magic and Isaiah

[anel1002]

Jordan for life.... "His airness strikes again ", most popular statement...

[ownage16050]

jordan

kobe

magic

top 3 players all time.

[SalaTaMaRaCiTy]

@ownage16050 Kobe? Jajajajajajajaj

For me:

Thomas

Jordan

Olajuwon

[ownage16050]

@SalaTaMaRaCiTy  thomas better than magic ? Jajajajajajaja!! cmon olajuwon better than kobe? whatever.

[Vstrat0]

@ownage16050 all guards. Here's my starting 5 G - Oscar G - Jordan C - Wilt C - Shaq F - Rodman My team plays a hi low post game. Wilt was fast enough to run with anybody. Shaq 1996 could run. Rodman? Oh ya. 2x DPOY shoulda been at least 2 more. I own the boards on both ends. I own the paint at both ends. I have the most dominant front line in history, and the greatest all-round guards in the backcourt. Nobody can score on my team, and nobody can stop their offense. These are the GOATs

[sitonmyshamrock]

@Vstrat0 Rodman? Put down the bong son. 

[Vstrat0]

@sitonmyshamrock lol I know right? but at his best, he really was the best.... although some of my old friends from WAAAAAAAAAAY back in the day still argue Luke Jackson is the all time best PF ( talking Lucious, from what the NBA called the greatest team of all time, the 66-67 76ers.... not the 2000s guy).

Everybody knows rodman.... almost nobody remembers #54...

Bottom line though, is rebounds - I got plenty of scoring on my team - and there ain't no F better than D Rod at getting the ball

[emmettk]

@Vstrat0 Your friends must have been from Philly: Luke Jackson was never considered the best PF- ever. Good player, that's all.

[IMBLUESTREAK23]

You just watch the clips from this era and you can tell that none of those guys could compete in today's game. It's just a fact.

[atl2maryland]

@IMBLUESTREAK23 todays game is so much faster paced and so much more athletic.. sometimes they look like they're playing in slow motion.. not to take anything away from them but I call it how I see it

[mcentepede]

@atl2maryland Keep in mind that technology has improved. Slow motion only because the camera technology is weaker. Today we have Hi-definition which gives a few camera tricks to make people look faster than they really are. For example Jesse Owens won gold medal in the 30's in 9.95 seconds. Flo-Jo won gold in 10.48 seconds which has yet to be beaten by any women. this was nearly 25 years ago. As for athleticism. Walt Frazier was a star player in 3 sports, scholarships for 2 but chose basketball

[megaskatestar]

alsindor is kareem

[TheEntertainmentonly]

Kareem set a pick on Pat Riley @ 1:35. LOL.

[megaskatestar]

top 5

1 alsindor

2 jordan

3 chamberlain

4 robertson

5 bryant

[buckfan1969]

Top 5

Oscar

Wilt

Jordan

Magic

Lebron

Honorable Mention:

Baylor

Bird

Russell

[KB24forMVP08]

@buckfan1969 You are the dumbest person ever. How can you put Lebron in there if he has no ring. Lebron hasnt done anything huge in the nba just yet. The only reson he always gets talked about is because of the potential he has of being the best ever, not because he has accomplished feats such as, first to 10,000 points.

[buckfan1969]

@KB24forMVP08 Rings aren't the criteria for greatness. If they were, Satch Sanders (with about 9 rings with the Celtics) would be on everyone's list. My criteria is a player's ability to dominate a game and his position on the court. All those I named have that ability. I appreciate the name-calling though; it pretty much neutralizes everything else you had to say.

[freein2339]

Top Five

Magic

Jordan

Kareem

Duncan

Kobe

Maybe Moses amd Lebron somewhere...

[AKBird4711]

michael Jordan

magic johnson

Bill Russle

Wilt chamberlain

Larry Bird

Kereem Abdule Jabar

oscar Robinson

John Stockten

jerry West

julius Erving

[kiminokami]

You can't do this. I really don't think you can do this.

[FlamboyantDragon]

Hes the best versatile player of all time. he's not at top, bcuz like most say to Wilt that he wasn't much of a winner. Jordan won and proved majority wrong. Im not ridin him though, cuz I love Big O. The D-Wade be4 D-Wade at big guard position.

[LakersDynasty42]

Oscar and Wilt also played in the same era as the greatest dynasty in NBA history. Those Boston Celtic teams were stacked so I can't hold that against them.

[jcaudill6921]

Top 5 players to ever play the game.

1. Michael Jordan

2. Oscar Robertson

3. Magic Johnson

4. Wilt Chamberlain

5. Bill Russell

[bettydaw1970]

dosent allen look slow? never see him take it to the whole and finish..

with statistical variance/including minutes per game.. from then and now bron bron would be like 36 pts 13 assists and 14 reb a game averages..

i beleive that the major league baseball players of the 50s and 60s were every bit as good as they are today,

but i dont feel that way about the nba players, i feel the earlier players were an inferoir breed..

[freein2339]

Same thing in football..The athletes are bigger , faster , stronger etc..then any of the players of the past eras,...

[Vstrat0]

@bettydaw1970 interesting. I don't agree, but interesting!!

[bettydaw1970]

i have to laugh when they get guys to comment on oscar robertson..allen is 35 years old, i am 41 and oscar retired when i was a young kid..i come here to find footage on him, not watch allen comment on the same footage i see here as if allen watched him play..oscar retired when allen was 1 year old..