Manx Gaelic recording - Ned Maddrell (Last native Manx Speaker)

[haggisman1971]

It seems to be generally agreed that Ned Madrell was the last native Manx speaker. But when he died, there must have been others who could speak the language reasonably well, maybe having picked some up as children from elderly relatives who still used Manx within the family circle. I suppose you would class them as Manx speakers albeit not purely native. Could any of them still realistically be alive?

[nakaale]

This would be fascinating to those of us who have some Irish or Gaidhlig, but could someone add subtitles in English? Go raibh mile maith agat!

[RaphaelIsASexyName]

Was this recorded with a shoe?

[SeanOBriain]

@RaphaelIsASexyName Why yes it was - How did you guess?

[BrokenClocks08]

@SeanOBriain LMFAO

[MaryMacaroni]

@SeanOBriain lolol

[toganet]

@RaphaelIsASexyName

In 1964, shoe recording technology was at its apex! The following year shoe phone technology would be introduced, alas decades too early for Americans.

[xhemexx]

It buggs me because some of these Celtic languages sound so much like English or some Germanic languages. Yet when they are linked with other sub groups of the Indo-European language family, what group are they mostly linked with...ITALIC/ROMANCE, and I cannot figure why Liguists don't link Celtic with the Germanic languages. Another thing, is it me, or does Manx seem to have alittle more in common with the Brythonic Celtic languages then Gaelic.

[SeanOBriain]

@xhemexx That's a pretty ignorant comment. Firstly - Celtic languages are in no way related to Germanic languages. Languages are group by branches based on what they descend from. Secondly, Manx has nothing in common with the Brythonic branch of Celtic languages - it is derived from a primitive form of the Irish language - So it shares alot in common with modern Irish and Scottish Gaelic.

[xhemexx]

@SeanOBriain well the Celtic languages are also not related to the Romance languages either. I just made an observation that Celtic and Germanic show more similarities with eachother then either do to any other branch of Indo-European. Also I noticed that Manx seems to have a radically different LOOKING alphabet then Irish or Scottish Gaelic and frankly it resembles alittle bit Welsh or Cornish or Breton.

[SeanOBriain]

@xhemexx The spelling is not orthodox because written Manx is relatively new. The pronounication, verbs, nouns, adjectives and structure are quite similar to Irish and Scottish Gaelic. It is not related or does not resemble any Germanic languages.

[MattSteidl]

@SeanOBriain It DOES. In Roman times, on the Continent, many Germanic tribes were regarded as Celts and vice versa. Because in the early days they used to have similar cultures and habits and even a common proto language. Example with Scottish Gaelic and Bavarian/German: lament, cumha, Kummer. Children, Cloinne, Kloine. Girl, maighdeann, Maedchen. Eagle, iolair, Odler etc.

[SeanOBriain]

@MattSteidl I'm sorry - but a handful of similar words doesn't imply that two languages share the same roots. Telefís is Irish for television, but you wouldn't say that Irish is derived from Greek or Latin. Show me a peer reviewed journal to backup your claims.

[MattSteidl]

@SeanOBriain I am German. Germany and France used to be Celtic territories before the Romans and Germans came. But there are quite a lot of similarities between older Continental "Germanic" dialects like Bavarian and Celtic languages. I mean, the Irish and the Brits didn't come from nowhere! They have their roots on the Continent.

[SeanOBriain]

@MattSteidl Parts of Germany and France may have had Celtic tribes - but that doesn't mean that German or French is related to celtic languages. Germanic languages share no similarities with Celtic languages. If you spoke any form of Gaelic, you'd understand.

[MattSteidl]

@SeanOBriain I studied pre-history and early history, and I learned some Scottish Gaelic, too.

[SeanOBriain]

@MattSteidl Ok so - Cite a peer reviewed journal to back up your claims. Similarities in languages does not imply shared roots, anymore than it implies a geographical influence between two different languages.

[MattSteidl]

@SeanOBriain "The Bavarians emerged in a region north of the Alps, originally inhabited by the Gauls, which had been part of the Roman provinces of Raetia and Noricum." ... "The name "Bavarian" ("Baiuvarii") means "Men of Baia" which may indicate Bohemia, the homeland of the Celtic Boii..." ... "The Boii (Latin plural, singular Boius; Greek Βόϊοι) were one of the most prominent ancient Celtic tribes of the later Iron Age. (Rankin, D. (1996). Celts and the classical world (2nd ed.). London)

[SeanOBriain]

@MattSteidl Like I said - I'm not disputing a geographical influence. That does not state anything with regards to the roots of Germanic and Celtic languages being of the same stock.

[MattSteidl]

@SeanOBriain There is also genetic proof that so called Germanic tribes and Celtic tribes very likely have the same origin. This is not a myth. It was the Romans who invented the categories "Celtic" and "Germanic". Even the cultures and habits were identical: Druids, clans, the gods and the beliefs, and a neolithic proto language which gradually split into "Germanic" and "Celtic" languages. The Belgae used to be a Celtic tribe, too. But modern Flemish is regarded as Germanic... Difficult issue

[gert83]

@SeanOBriain & Matt, all Indo European languages are related, they share many word roots and grammatical similarities. Irish is not closely related to German, but they ARE related. They are also BOTH related to Hindi, Farsi and Sanskrit.

Matt is also correct - Southern Germany and Austria had a very strong pre-historic Celtic culture. Hallstatt in Austria is thought to be the cradle of early Celtic culture.

[ODubhthaigh1]

@xhemexx U idiot, this is a bilingual conversation with English being spoken !!!

[ODubhthaigh1]

Respond to this video... manz and the language of Scotland are evolved forms of the Irish language !!

[bridgetoofar2]

OMG this is weird...I speak Irish and I can understand most of wat he's saying!!! How weird!

[Pawnbroker00]

@bridgetoofar2 not really, the gaels near the irish sea (galwegians, manx, irishmen) all had interactions to a point where the dialects were similar

[LegionnaireEtrangere]

Plus he's speaking Manxgalish. You can hear him sprinkle in some english here and there.

[theworldvideos1]

It would be interesting to know whether in 100 years time, there would be native manx speakers !!!! Of course there are people who speak Manx, as a learned language, but what would they speak it to their children, when they're born - That's a different thing !!!!

[SeanOBriain]

@theworldvideos1 That's a good question, and hard to predict. The future will rest with the families. It will only survive if it is accepted as a community language, rather than merely a scholarly one.

[barnbersonol]

@theworldvideos1 It's one thing for enthusiasts to create Manx speaking children, quite another to persuade them to keep up what they will prob regard as a daft, pretentious hobby after the age of ten.

[mackerel47]

Long live the Manx revival! I hope everyone speaks Manx fifty years from now!

[IrishFoodHunter]

Go hiontach ar fad, is féidir leat cúpla focal atá saghas mar Gaeilge Éire a cloisint, sén trua go bhfuil an "accent" immithe, sin an fíor slí chun teanga a labhairt, i cant stand these uncultured fools who think Gaelic languages are dialects, ulster scots is one for sure its only slang from the lowlands of scotland bought to Ireland, but the rest are actual languages. An Gaeilge Abú!

[Solstisol]

'Begs the question:

If this bloke was the LAST Manx speaker, is it because the interviewer died the day after the interview?

By the same token: if he was; at the time of the interview; the last Manx speaker. who knows that he wasn't just winding people up by making a bunch of funny sounds and PRETENDING to be the last Manx speaker?

[SeanOBriain]

@Solstisol um....

[tocaat2410]

@Solstisol

He was officially the last NATIVE speaker of Manx. At the time of his death (1974) there were a few hundred who could speak the language more or less fluently, but not native speakers (Madrell & a few others did recordings for posterity). There are now a few dozen young adults (maybe more) 'neo-native' speakers, who learned Manx from a very young age, including doing lessons in primary school in the language.

[chiki283]

@Solstisol David Clement of the School of Scottish Studies interviewed the last two Manx speakers sometime in the seventies. They were from different ends of the island and I think didn't know each other

[chiki283]

@Solstisol David Clement of the School of Scottish Studies recorded the last two Manx speakers some time in the seventies. They were from opposite ends of the island and didn't know each other

[Alcarohtare]

@Solstisol Brian Stowell (the interviewer) is fluent in Manx but is not a native speaker. Ned Maddrell was the last native speaker meaning that he was the last person alive who grew up speaking Manx as his native tongue. (Brian Stowell learned it as a student.) Manx is now being revived and has hundreds of speakers and probably has a few new native speakers by now.

[Himself12794]

@Solstisol he wasn't, the language is well documented

[Olekander]

@Solstisol not possbie just from linguists people can tell.

[barnbersonol]

@Solstisol He was the last NATIVE speaker. The interviewer, among others, has learn the lang through study. Praps you worked that out yerself and were being facetious, in case weren't there's your answer.

[ZolotayaKoshka]

@Solstisol "The last native manx speaker" I suppose means the last one who had it as his first language, i.e. the language you are most fluent in and think in. So the interviewer could have it as a second language, understanding and speaking it but not using it at home.

[Lewie91]

@Solstisol Ned Maddrell was the last NATIVE speaker, i.e. he was brought up with Manx in the home, he dreamt and thought in Manx . The interviewer learnt the language by studying it from later age- he is a native speaker of English.

[overture13]

@Solstisol you've confused "native" and "fluent" here. Ned was the last NATIVE speaker, but not the last FLUENT speaker. Native means it is your first language. the interviewer had learned Manx fluently as a second language. like I said, native and fluent are not the same. you can know a language fluently without it being your first langauge. Stop being such a clown.

[Thraxamer]

@Solstisol:

Per the title of the video, he was the last _native_ Manx speaker. One can still learn Manx (much like one can learn Latin, even though there are no native speakers alive), but the original line of native Manx speakers ended with this gentleman.

There are revival efforts underway to resurrect the language within modern Manx communities. It should be noted the people in today's Manx communities are all native English speakers.

[Thraxamer]

Addendum: Had I searched a bit further down in the comments, I would see this had been addressed.

Anyhow, the revival of dead/dying languages is an interesting topic... if you like linguistics and languages. Modern Hebrew, for example, is a constructed revival of spoken ancient Hebrew, containing syntactical differences that make it less "authentic" than the root Hebraic language in the eyes of some language scholars.

[dylan808oakes]

@Solstisol native manx not a non native who learned manx

[zorgo12]

@Solstisol question 1: he was the last NATIVE BORN speaker,he learned it from childhood. He isnt the last to speak the language. Usually there is death involved when you name some one "The last XX" otherwise it would be rather stupid. Question 2: Usually you have information about the dying language and can tell what is silly noises and what isnt. just beacuse he is dead, doesnt mean you can't find information about the language. e.g. the Rosetta stone or this recording.

[GaeilgeSpraoi]

The thing that confuses me as an Irish speaker about Manx in the goddamn spelling! No offense but it's horrible. In Irish and Scottish Gaelic it's very structured with the whole slender and broad thing but Manx. Although listening to it isn't too hard, I can pick up many similar words and gist of what they're saying.

[ejr161]

@GaeilgeSpraoi I actually find the manx spelling much easier to cope with than gaidhlig and gaeilge. I've been learning scottish gaelic for quite a while and I still can't get my head completely round the transition from writing to speaking - it just looks nothing like it sounds! But I did a bit of Manx recently out of interest and took to it much easier as it's much closer to english orthography (although there's some regularities). I suppose to a fluent Irish speaker it's unnatural!

[bugstrut]

Is this an actual language, or just another dialect of Irish Gaelic? Also, why to modern Manx people sound like Scousers?

[SeanOBriain]

@bugstrut It is a language. Irish, Scottish Gaelic and Manx all share the same roots - but they are all individual languages and are not all mutually intelligible. Although, some phrases and words would be understood - the spelling and pronunciation varies from language to language. The accent of the Manx people I'd attribute to alot of people from England moving to the Island, causing a direct influence on the accent. It's rare to hear an authentic manx accent, few have it. Mostly the elderly.

[chiki283]

@bugstrut Why do Cornish speakers not sound Welsh? Southern Scotland was once Welsh speaking but they don't sound Welsh or Cornish. Cumbria used to be Welsh speaking but they don't sound it do they? Where do English accents come from? Certainly not Germany.

[LudmorHun]

@bugstrut Borders between languages are artificial, there are many dialects that can be regarded as different languages, and there are languages that can be regarded as dialects.

[bb3ca201]

Tha mi'n dochas nach bi seo a' tachairt leis a' Ghaidhlig...

[gerhardherm]

"T'eh cabblyl mie ta breimeragh tra t'e jannoo yn ushtey."

It's a good horse that farts when it pisses.

seanfhacal Gaelg le Ned Maddrell

Dileas sinn ri cheile, ar cannanan ar cuislean. A nis agus gu brath.

[AidrianODoughaill]

It's great to have a reference to the old Manx accent like this, given that the accent of the revived Manx is so diluted. It's a shame about the quality, though, I'm finding it difficult to make out even the parts in english. Great video!

[UISTMAN59]

@AidrianODoughaill I agree - it sounds as if the recording was made at a gathering where everyone is throwing in their tuppence worth and its hard to make out when its is Ned and when it is Brian Stowell or someone else entirely. A precious recording nonetheless.

[SeanOBriain]

@AidrianODoughaill it's difficult for sure, it's kind of like cb radio, you need to train your ear to listen to it properly. i don't speak manx, but I can make out bits and pieces because it's phonetically similar to irish.

[michael1916]

Sad to hear the last Manx speaker.

[SeanOBriain]

@michael1916 It is a shame, but they are reviving the language now and have a school which teaches directly through the medium of Manx Gaelic. So the future is bright :) Still though, the language language has suffered and even the Manx accent has been replaced with an English accent due to mass immigration from England.

[michael1916]

@SeanOBriain At least thats somehting, Good to see children learning the language :) thats crazy that even the manx accent is disapearing.

[SeanOBriain]

@michael1916 Well yeah - but it's not suprising, considering the population of the Isle of Man is only 80,000 - it doesn't take much to completely destroy it's culture and heritage.