Fully Charged | Ford Transit connect | episode 30

[Alvord1430]

I'm trying to get my employer to purchase one of these as a shuttle vehicle between offices one mile apart. However, this electric Transit Connect is very expensive.

[stubbornVN]

I can't understand this at all. Why is Robert on the left side of the van driving on the left side of the road?

[fullychargedshow]

@stubbornVN The explanation is simple. In the UK we drive on the left, the vehicle was built in Europe, where everyone is sensible and drives on the right. This was a demonstration vehicle, I should have explained, when Ford release the car in the UK it will be right hand drive.

[CCmachine]

@fullychargedshow Driving on the left-hand side of the road is slightly safer. But this is a silly discussion. The main problem is that there isn't a standard, and switching is very expensive and not beneficial other than becoming the same as some other country.

I really liked Robert's accent there, deliverin cakes and bread xD

[johnson1095]

@fullychargedshow

i thought people in the UK drove on the right and in France, it was like here in America

[GreenThinker2007]

my cousin owns a garage and has outfitted all his roofs with solar panels - he uses it to charge his electric car and has juice left over to sell back to the electric utility (in Germany) and makes money with it!

[GreenThinker2007]

check out this photo of my cousin's installation on my fb bulletin board - silvaine zimmermann

.

[martinsteers]

Would love a EV but its the cost barrier for me..

[paytontech]

@martinsteers You have to build it yourself. They won't be built cheaply in good numbers anytime soon. They aren't profitable like dino burners because dino burners suck cash for maintenance and parts over the 10 or so years they're on the road. Not so for electrics. That also hurts sales of new cars... So... No desire to build them on the part of the manufacturers. That's business.

[headrushchow]

I would be interested to know real life mileage, as most ratings are at highway speeds. Most delivery trucks do not travel at highway speeds most of the time. As a small business I would love to have a EV Van for in town deliveries, but the $40k price tag is a little daunting.

[Jesus45U]

@headrushchow

While the lower speed would make a difference in real life milage, it should also be noted, that most tests are done with empty vehicles ... which is not normal in the real world. And a heavy load can make a huge difference in real life milage, especially in city driving.

It's a "what they loose on the swings, they gain on the roundabouts" situation.

[headrushchow]

@Jesus45U I agree, and therefore would still like a real world tests and see what the mileage is. I would LOVE to have a electric van for my work around town. My longest drive is about 40 miles for the round trip, but I only do that on rare occasions, most of them are only 10 miles. I have thought about converting my old van to electric, but time and money are at a premium.

[Jesus45U]

@headrushchow

Oh yeah, with short distances like that, electric makes sense.

Especially while sitting in a queue, all you would use is the energy for stuff like air con / headlamps / brake servo - It would make a huge difference. That said, not all van drivers could use one, but I'm sure some could use them just fine. :)

[SquareoftheyearFM]

Shame Smith couldn't keep making their version.

[billdale1]

Robert: you're always pushing your glasses up your nose-- there are tiny rubber rings that you can slip over the side pieces that make them pinch in gently on yoir head an keep them from sliding or dropping off. Also, you should try some stylish, light-weight wire frame glasses-- get some with built-in spring hinges. I think you'll like them better.

I appreciate your efforts-- your enthusiasm-- and, most surely,your spot-on diesel impersonations.

Bill

[billdale1]

I live in L.A., CA, and recently found myself behind a huge Staples delivery van with a big, bright sign on the rear door saying something like, "CONGRTAULATIONS!!! You're driving behind a fully electric vehicle, so you're not breathing our smog!" Very clever promotion. Hope to see more such EVs soon.

Also, attended the Santa Monica Alt (alternative) Car Show yesterday, and was pleased to see the Leaf, Fisker, and lots of other great rides. Curiously, Tesla was a no-show, though.

[msyin9]

The difference is enough to make note of it. The perception of American made cars is no longer one of great reliability but what is a fact is the difference between what our govt requires and the UK is very different. The mileage, efficiency, styles, options, etc is so different that visitors to the UK are often surprised and then disgusted that the same cars are not available to them in the UK. The lobbyist here control the govt so much that quality differences result.

[Jesus45U]

@msyin9

That's surprising.

I mean, yes, I know american cars have never been known as the best quality cars, but never been considered bad either. Big and gas guzzling, yes, but not necesarily because of bas quality .. they are just .. big.

Ah well, I guess they brought it on themselves.

[cfe4570]

@msyin9 How many UK cars drive for 100,000 miles, or double that, I wonde,r before they are considered for repair or replacement? Dense populations benefit from short range, eco cars , but here in the West US.... no, I think not.

[msyin9]

The difference is enough to make note of it. The perception of American made cars is no longer one of great reliability but what is a fact is the difference between what our govt requires and the UK is very different. The mileage, efficiency, styles, options, etc is so different that visitors to the UK are often surprised and then disgusted that the same cars are not available to them in the UK. The lobbyist here control the govt so much that quality difference result. I would buy Ford in the UK

[msyin9]

Glad to see you have looked at the commercial side of vehicles and how much time, energy and resources are wasted in what is so commonly used today. I hope many other larger companies that make deliveries will take this on board and that smaller companies who pockets are not as deep will be given other options as well. Large companies in the USA have been changing their fleets to hybrid and electric and I am sure it is making financial sense.

[benjy545]

I used to work at a haulage depot where all the forklift trucks were electric and it made the work environment so much more enjoyable.

[ruuman]

This makes total sense if your business is based in a major city as Rob said.

In London, this van would also be road tax and congestion charge exempted. That's around a 3K saving per year already. If they could just get the price down slightly I think it would be a lot more attractive to certain businesses.

[Smidge204]

@ 5:50 Ah, those classic Llewellyn engine noise impersonations! :) Best in the industry to be sure!

[msyin9]

@Smidge204 He is so much fun to listen to and watch. I really enjoy this show.

[nzantsfield]

Thank you - GREAT SHOW :)

Perhaps you might want to mention to people the inefficiencies of combustion engines - at best 25% and if used in serious traffic, this drops to 10 - 15% of the fuel converted to forward motion.

That is pathetic compared to an electric engine that is >90% efficient & batteries ~95% !!

To make this into a real world example I often explain it to people that if they put $100 petrol into their car, they get $15 move them forward :(

E-car $100 = >$75 moves it forward !!!!!

[greyareaRK1]

London and other major cities need to implement a by-law requiring all gas stations to install fast charge stations (with incentives) so the whole range anxiety issue goes away, at least within the city and suburbs. Then offer incentives to taxi companies to get them to switch over, followed by public vehicles - police cars, ambulances, meter maids and so on. Do that, and the transition to electric will accelerate smoothly.

[greyareaRK1]

London and other major cities need to implement a by-law requiring all gas stations to install fast charge stations (with incentives) so the whole range anxiety issue goes away, at least within the city and suburbs. Then offer incentives to taxi companies to get them to switch over, followed by public vehicles - police cars, ambulances, meter maids and so on. Do that, and the transition to electric will accelerate smoothly.

[firebourn]

I am american and I would not buy this. I am for electric vehicles, but it's a Ford. I doubt it will last ten years.

[msyin9]

@firebourn Having lived in London for years I can honestly say that Ford in the USA is not, I say again, is not, the same as Ford in the UK. It is very eye opening to see the difference as I have. Ford in the UK does have a much better performance than its American counterpart. So for people in the UK, Ford delivery vans would not be an issue as to reliability. The European standards that US car companies have to comply with there creates almost an entirely different car.

[Jesus45U]

@msyin9

Is the quality difference really that big ?

I mean, I was about to reply to firebourn that I didn't see any issues with Ford vehicles here in Denmark, used a Ford Focus for a few years, no problems there ... but then I saw your post .... is the difference really that big ?

[firebourn]

I am american and I would not buy this. I am for electric vehicles, but it's a Ford. I doubt it will last ten years.

[yyarross]

Perfect diesel noise imitation :)

[WillMasterke]

I just moved into London and I totally know what u mean!!! :D I hate those trucks and delivery vans always running their damn engine!! and when I see an electric car in London my heart always skips a beat :D

[TheSecretVault]

The only down side is running out when your out and and about would be horrendous hassle in having to wait around to be charged. I think when there are charge points around London everywhere so people wouldt have to call out another vehicle or ask Mrs miggins if you can stick your extension cable in through er window would be a lot better. 70 miles might be just about enough for some people but close to the limit for a lot of others. Id love one though.

[haganbrown]

I love this channel. Keep up the good work.

[pfreichel1]

Hello,

I love all your films about electric cars and i think i will buy one in 2012. Do you know if the Ford Focus EV comes to europe in 2012 ?

Greetings from Luxembourg,

Patrick

[tleneel]

Does it have an AC-55? I couldn't find the specs, just 140hp 300Nm output. It doesn't say what motor :s

[TerraRoot]

like if you lol'd at the lead acid battery in the engine bay!

[radu0gheorghe]

Indeed, there is no argument about whether this van is better than its sister ICE vans. In urban traffic (where we are fully aware of the pollution) electric vehicles make a lot of sense - even for range-anxious people.

[advandermeer]

While I am happy with every new EV on the market, I do get tired with the next OEM conversion. Renault has done it with the Kangoo and now there is the Transit Connect.

Is it really too much to ask of Ford, Renault and all the other OEM's to make an electric car/van. You know, an EV build to be an EV from the bottom up. It's not like the technology is not there. It's not like they don't have the cash as most OEM's have been raking it in the last year. All I can think is they are stalling.

[XitUp]

@advandermeer Do you know how much that would cost them in type approval for a totally new vehicle? Millions at least.

[advandermeer]

@XitUp Millions is peanuts in billion dollar world. It's a choice: A rock makes waves, a pebble ripples. Ford Transit EV, Focus EV.... A real EV with a Ford badge is probably 5 years away...

[XitUp]

@advandermeer But why spend those millions when you already have a vehicle that does the job.

Sure, the aerodynamics won't be great on it, but it's designed for low speed city work, so that won't matter.

[advandermeer]

@XitUp I don't question the shape of the Transit, but a conversion is never an optimal solution. So much opportunity is lost. Look at the chassis architecture of the Tesla Model S or the BMW i3 and how they have integrated the battery in the structure. Now take a look at the bottom of the Transit EV and how the batteries are placed. Ford could make a much better (read efficient) EV, but they don't.

[XitUp]

@advandermeer The i3 is a concept car. The Model S is a hatchback. They have very different load requirements than a van.

[advandermeer]

@XitUp Any car, passenger or commercial, benefits from well spread weight and a low centre of gravity. Spreading the weight is different for passenger cars and commercial vehicles, but being able to pack the batteries in the chassis at least offers options instead of fixed spots. The Transit can only harbor batteries where the ICE architecture allows it. Ford is happy as they can claim they have a commercial EV, but it's still just a conversion.

[XitUp]

@advandermeer Why would it benefit from a low CoG and 50/50 weight distribution? It's not a sports car, it's a low speed delivery van!

I agree that a ground up design would be better, but I also understand how costly this would be, and electric cars are not exactly cheap to start with.

Why does it matter if it's a conversion if it does the job well?

[advandermeer]

@XitUp Any vehicle benefits from a low CoG. I have three commercial vehicles, from Renault Trafic upto DAF 95 and even at low speeds (50 KPH/30 MPH) I´d like them to be stable to keep the cargo where it is. Commercial vehicles are usually relatively high, so lowering the CoG is great.

I said well spread weight, not 50-50. You obviously want loading capacity in the back so it´s probably 35/65 when the car is empty.

[XitUp]

@advandermeer Are your vans not stable enough.

Where would you put batteries without them eating into your load space?

[advandermeer]

@XitUp Look at Tesla Model S or the BMW i3. Both cars will have their batteries as a part of the chassis of the car. Trucks cannot be EV´s yet, but I´d seriously consider a true EV van the size of the Renault Trafic. I´d be very willing to sacrifice 2 inches cargo space, but I doubt it would be necessary.

Have you ever driven a fully loaded commercial vehicle? The higher you load, the higher the CoG. If the car itself has a low CoG it will improve the stability of the loaded car.

[XitUp]

@advandermeer I've driven a lwb van, and one of those big American day vans, but never a proper truck.

How many miles a day does the average van/truck do, I'd guess it's a lot more than the average car, hence no EVs.

How much would the batteries have an impact on CoG of a fully loaded van?

[DanFrederiksen]

btw it's interesting that a huge company like Ford can't/won't do the electrification on their own and rely on azure

[DanFrederiksen]

very nice. it sounds unusually quiet even for an EV but maybe that's just a good microphone?

[Jesus45U]

I've driven a van during my employ as a phone technician. And in some cases, 70 miiles would have been enough, but in most cases it wouldn't even have been close to enough. It was normal to put up to 200 miles a day on the clock.

But I would have *loved* to have an EV during start stop traffic, they just make oh so much sense there. Add a small gas turbine as a range extender and it would work, and then recharge it over night.

Even with the range extender, you'd still reduce emissions a lot.

[fullychargedshow]

@Jesus45U I agree, many van drivers would cover more, but, and okay this is hypothetical, if you could charge them while you're working, particularly phone technician, couple of hours at each job, 30 amp charge point and you've got 50 miles range in an hour of charging.

[Jesus45U]

@fullychargedshow

Many of the jobs themselves consists of driving around looking for the problem that needs to be fixed, so you wouldn't be able to recharge doing that. If there was a fast recharge station where you could recharge in less than 15 minutes, then sure.

A small gas turbine can run on just about anything, plus it can be made fairly compact and leightweight. Bigger batteries in the future would solve the problem, but for now Range Extender seems the best.

[drees76]

@Jesus45U It's pretty clear that EVs won't work for everyone right now. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't start using them wherever they make sense. As a phone tech, your company probably has a fleet of vehicles - if you have to drive 70+ miles - take the gasser and leave the EV for someone driving less.

In time there will be enough charging stations to make it a non issue (or at worst a minor issue).

[Jesus45U]

@drees76

Unfortunately you wouldn't know in advance how far you'd end up going each day. Also, you didn't start at a central meeting place, you took the car home with you, and started work from your own home address by logging into a secure wireless network, so whichever you went home in, is what you went to work in next day. And you tended to drive the same car continiously for years until it neeeded replacing.

And yes, *eventually* batteries and fast recharge stations will solve the problem.

[gene978]

Can the batteries be recycled ?

[edstar83]

@gene978 Yes. Not 100% but pretty close enough. Better than polluting the Planet by burning fossil fuels while making the oil companies rich. Remember we live in an enclosed living bio sphere thats been floating through space for billions of years, its pretty selfish for us to destroy it in a couple of hundred. Ruin it not just for generations of humans still to come, but the millions of life forms that share it with us..... Im just saying.

[fullychargedshow]

@gene978 Only around 98% of the materials in the batteries can be recycled, again and again. Yes, they can basically. Nissan are currently building the biggest battery manufacturing and refurb plant in Europe, in Sunderland.

[gene978]

this vehicle is based on the older Ford Focus platform that the US has. Pretty cool huh? I already see these gas powered here in the states commercially and I saw the first passenger model as shown here. I wonder what the price is going to be compared to the $20,000 gas model?

[KuraIthys]

@gene978 Good question. I don't know if you can actually do a direct price comparison, but he said £40,000 for an electric one. (That's roughly $60-70,000 US), so... quite a lot. That seems pretty typical for electric vehicles. Batteries cost a small fortune. (With some cars it's been 1/3 the cost of the whole thing.)

[evei0326rjwk]

vooooorrrrrr vooooorrrrrr vooooorrrrrr rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla

vooooorrrrrr vooooorrrrrr vooooorrrrrr rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla rla

[metameme]

WOO!! You rock Llewellyn!

[JRP3]

Nice review, clearly pointing out the strengths of electric vehicles over ICE in an urban delivery, or commuter, setting.

[polpotsdog]

makes sense. 

[Boodieman72]

Wonder if it would make for a good ambulance.

[evei0326rjwk]

@Boodieman72 Great Idea, EM has great torque = faster 0-60mph = save ppl!

[XitUp]

@Boodieman72 GVW would be way too low. Could make an ok first responder vehicle for cities.

[andygoth]

is it 70 miles full loaded?

[maturerobuk]

another informative and interesting report from Mister Electric

[mentar]

Whoa! Feels like the series started yesterday and it's already on episode 30. I really appreciate your efforts Robert, please keep it up :)