Ireland's Hated Hero - Eamon DeValera Part 4

[Maguirearch]

@TheSergeantslash I agree with you one hundred percent....he castigates McGuiness for calling his detractors West Brits....It's OK for him and Ruth Dudley Edwards to preach from the relative sanctuary of the south but none of them lived in teh poor working class areas of the urban Nationalist North....effectively guys like O'Toole and Gay Mitchell are quite content for Northern Ireland to remain under Westminister control

[F4foxbravo995]

DEv was a terrorist, a class one ass-hole and tin-pot terrorist. It is a pity Churchill dissuaded Roosevelt from taking "neutral" Nazi loving Dev and his free state over and shooting him. Would have saved many many Merchant Navy crew members lives and from the airstrip at Cork (Ovens) brought the war to the U-Boats faster. No nice "neutral" waters to hide , no nice friendly fuel dumps to resupply from. Every 12th of July and November 5th Dev is one of the names still burned..

[jratt2]

@F4foxbravo995 Actually Dev was a democratically elected leader with a mandate to keep Eire neutral, not a terrorist. Don't you think it odd that in a war for democracy that the democratic will of a neutral people should be cast aside? Probably not, your American - no sense of irony. Irish neutrality was stacked in favour of the allies. There were no fuel dumps for uboats. Read the Cranborne Report online. Read a history book. Educate yourself.

[bigbadbrainz]

Mcguiness talkin bout dev bein a traitor to republicans, I guess it takes one to know one

[NiamhFergus]

Collins truly believed that the treaty would be a stepping stone to freedom and not permanent. De Valera however did dismantle it as far as possible

[neil028]

De Valera killed micheal collins end off

[kyldy]

well dev may have tried to stop the ambush he did set up the events that started the civil war. He also was a turn coat. However, I feel sorry for a man who never actually had the truth from his mother as to who his father was.

[MultiMe85]

Micheal Collins a true leader and soldier of the irish people!

[breda83]

@MultiMe85 He was a British lackey and a traitor, he sold out the 6 counties

[skaselecter]

hanks for the post...this is the kind of stuff I'm interested in but rarely get a chance to see on TV in the US...very interesting and enjoyed it very much...

[inisboy1]

colins sold us out. free state cunt

[donnieD20]

De Valera was a protype of the sleeze politicians to later come into world politics. Collins was a George Washington for Ireland, effectively seizing all opportunities to gain independence for the people NOT HIMSELF. De Valera betrayed our Republic because he wanted to secure personal prestige and wanted to take the glory for himself. I look forward to meeting the Big Fella someday, until then Long Live Collins' Republic!!

[93rardo]

@donnieD20

Collins also executed Republicans.

[thefreewheelingirl]

collins took the treaty not dev....remember that..that was more or less the cause of the civil war!dont be so selective in your memory.

[donnieD20]

@thefreewheelingirl - spare me, yea he took the treaty, because 1)he helped draw it up 2)it was the first real step towards reconciliation between us and England, when a nation is ready to sit down and talk it means they are beginning to recognize that country's sovereignty. Don't be so short sighted in your responses, study up on international relations, understand that political reconciliation can no be solved with the end of a rifle, the way De Valera wanted to.

[TheSoulboy90]

@donnieD20

Well said! Those comments show a deeper understanding of what Collins was about.

A question I always put to Collins' detractors is this: What possible All-Ireland solution would ever have been accepted by the Northern Protestants? And what Non All-Ireland solution would hard-core Republicans have accepted?

[thefreewheelingirl]

@donnieD20 He didnt help draw up the fuckin treaty!!!he wanted external association(i cant remember if that is the exact term but if you know your stuff you will know what i am on about)....he did'nt want to solve the problem with a rifle either...he was in the US trying to get america on his side in order to force england to surrender ireland...there was a certain amount of violence required to make the world take notice of what was happening.

[donnieD20]

@thefreewheelingirl - yea great language there, makes it easy to take you seriously. Your right the treaty wasn't drawn up in his own words, and although he did sign it, he was rather hesitant on doing so. However, it was Collins who tried to mend a rift between his following and De Valera's to prevent a Civil War, a process in which De Valera walked away from, which basically sealed the inevitable fate of Civil War, and Collin's death months later.

[urbanguerrilla64]

@donnieD20

That is the popular simplistic explanation which this documentary has promoted. Collins wasnt in reality the great 'war leader' this makes out. Most of the IRA actions were carried out at local level without reference or approval by HQ.

[donnieD20]

@urbanguerrilla64 - I agree with you 100%, well said. However I feel that Collin's role was much more symbolic than that of being an on the field commander, his presence was a beacon of hope and someday independence, I would like to think. But you are very much so right, the IRA operated throughout the country in a more independent manner than what some historians would try to argue

[urbanguerrilla64]

@donnieD20 You're worng there; he took a big reduction in salary when he took office as Taoiseach.

He was lucky to survive 1916 but put his neck on the line as a leader and soldier. He held out till the end and was last to surrender only after confirmation of the order from Pearse. its easy to fall for the anti-dev propaganda but IMO this is some of the worse aspects of revisionism.

[Maguirearch]

@donnieD20

Dev Fucked up the South himself and John Charles McQuaid scared the Orange men out of a united country.....

But Collins was quite hasty signing that treaty if he knew it was gonna cause ructions he should have Waited...I am From Fermanagh and Beleive at least South Fermanagh and South Armagh Plus Derry City and Perhaps Most of Tyrone should have been ceeded to the south....it makes me sick to see Michale McDowell praising collins and his relation Mr Eoin McNeill....

[Maguirearch]

Eoin McNeill and his ilk relegated the Nationalist people to years of Stormont misrule...this is the legacy of Collins and these Southern Poiticians they didnt do enough for the North....Charlie Haughey cared more about Northerners as his parents were from Tyrone ...........I hope McGuinness gets to be President and shows the Unionist People we have a shared future....the Nationalist people of Northern Ireland were abandoned by succesive southern governments...

[Maguirearch]

The republic of Ireland needs a proper secular society ...not one so over archingly dominated by Catholicism

[art724]

@donnieD20 If you plan on meeting Michael Collins, it will be in the hell reserved for all traitors. Up the Republic! Up Dev!

[mufcstokesy]

he did betray the republic! after all his all his talk